skepteen314
Student
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2012
- Messages
- 30
What I mean is... Will somebody please explain to me why this case is so complex? It seems like a cut & dry case of murder 2/ manslaughter to me.
I know why it can't be murder 1.
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case
- Thread starter Cylinder
- Start date
- Status
What I mean is... Will somebody please explain to me why this case is so complex? It seems like a cut & dry case of murder 2/ manslaughter to me.
I know why it can't be murder 1.
Newtons Bit
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2007
- Messages
- 10,049
Probably that it is an effective weapon. Why else would he carry it? Do you think he should carry a less lethal gun?
Yup - he bought that one after his Kal-Tek was seized as evidence.
Really? Because of the Ft. Hood shooting? YGTBSM.
You haven't read much of this thread, have you?
The issue is that GZ says that he was in fear of death or grave bodily harm from TM, and that he acted to defend himself. If his fear was reasonable under the circumstances, his claim of self-defense is valid under the law. The evidence is not conclusive. The jury will decide whether GZ's belief and subsequent action were reasonable.
I'm guessing because of the underlying claim of self-defense by Zimmerman.
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 8,276
Waits for claim to change from "50 feet is too far, you can't explain that" to
"20 feet is too far, you can't explain that"
This is a large, fairly heavy weapon that uses hard-to-find ammunition. It also sells for almost $1200 -- from everything he says a big bite in GZ's budget. I would have speculated that for most civilian purposes a traditional .38- or .40 caliber or 9 mm weapon, available in numerous smaller, lighter and cheaper models, would have been a more suitable choice.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/08/robert-farago/gun-review-fn-five-seven/
Unabogie
Philosopher
Which is not the distance from the T, since that map shows the homes at 29' wide, which is almost exactly what I guessed!
It shows the body as almost exactly on the property line between the first and second house. So add to that the distance from the sidewalk to the house and you have 45'.
Because based on the facts we can manufacture various hypothetical scenarios under which Zimmerman is guilty of nothing/manslaughter/murder2... BUT there doesn't seem to be anyway to prove any of these scenarios beyond reasonable doubt.
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 8,276
Did you look at the map ? There is no 45' to the body ...
22 + 4 = 45?
Seriously, I'm doing my first read, but I'll get back to the actual distances.
Thank you for teaching me a new acronym. I had to look it up.
I'm just observing that this is an unusual, large and expensive weapon that first received broad public attention after the Fort Hood shootings. It was specifically designed for military purposes. Most people who take out concealed weapons permits choose something that is easier to conceal, and for which ammunition is easier to buy.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/08/robert-farago/gun-review-fn-five-seven/
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/03/handgun_reviews_fnusg_021207/
Zimmerman had a somewhat different threat in mind at that point (i.e. NBPP bounty, death threats, etc...) Hell, I'd probably want more of a cannon in that situation.
Unabogie
Philosopher
I'm sorry, they have the lots at 22' wide. So my reading was 22' for the lot, plus the distance from the sidewalk to the first lot.
Tiny computer screen right now, but it's certainly more than 20 feet. Where is anyone getting 20 feet from?
Tiny computer screen right now, but it's certainly more than 20 feet. Where is anyone getting 20 feet from?
Unabogie
Philosopher
How the hell did Trayvon's phone get so far south from the body, if Trayvon attacked him at the T and they "stumbled" down towards the south? If the lots are 22' wide, his phone was dropped about 15' south of where George killed him.
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 8,276
The drawing is *not to scale. So upon further thought, we really need from the corner of the house to the sidewalk and/or 'tee' to do accurate measurements.
Anyway, I think the not to scale helps account for the fact the phone looks 15' away, but actually isn't.
And I think the distance is somewhere between 22 and 40, but I don't know exactly where.
That's probably closer to 10'.
Page 145:
OM-6 -> Pillar B = 39.4 feet
OM-7 -> Pillar B = 30.6 feet
ETA: You need to pay very close attention to the recorded distances for the sketch on 145.. The drawing isn't to scale, with the bottom half of the drawing being at roughly twice the scale as the upper half.
Pillar A -> OM-4 = 22.0 feet
Pillar B -> OM-4 = 11.2 feet
If you look at the map, they appear to be equidistant.
Last edited:
Unabogie
Philosopher
Sure, but regardless, DeeDee heard the phone go dead at the start of the scuffle. According to George, that happened at the T. How does the phone get *south* of the shooting site? And by what looks like 15'?
Does that fit the story at all?
It does fit the witness who said she saw someone (perhaps George) running from the south and then the scuffle happens by the cellphone, they move *north* then after the shooting George moves further north (another witness saw him walk away) where he dropped his flashlight.
- Status