Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

[...]
3. He claims Trayvon tried to smother him. Yet on the 911 call where you can hear screaming, it never sounds muffled. Also, Trayvon, as far as we know, had none of his blood on his hands. Cue people who will nitpick that it's just fingernails, etc, but all of the public tests say he didn't have blood there. How do you grab and smother and punch a bloody head and get none of it on your hands?

Hopefully this gets cleared up today. It's not a nitpick - the dna test was labeled as from under the fingernails, not just 'the hands'.

4. He claims he only got out of the car for an address. Yet the address was clearly right there to his right. In the walkthrough, he says "because that's the back of the houses" while looking to his left, while to his right, there's a row of houses with clearly marked addresses. That part just isn't credible to me.

If you don't know the street name, what good is a house number ? Meet me at 1234 IDon'tKnow street ? If he had claimed he just needed a house number, i would agree with you. I thought that would be his claim earlier on. But it wasn't.

5. He admitted on the tape that he followed Trayvon, yet later lied and said he wasn't. You believe that?

No, I think he was started to follow him, then stopped. I think GZ is changing his story on that point to make himself look better.

6. Staying on the phone while planning his attack. According to George and DeeDee, we know that Trayvon stayed on the phone until the altercation began. Why did Trayvon keep talking with his friend if he was preparing a surprise assault? Why not hang up the phone, put it in his pocket (it was found on the ground, not in his pants) and pick up a weapon or something? Why keep talking on the phone, if you're trying to hide in the bushes?

It wasn't really a surprise assault ? TM stepped out and said something to GZ ? After they exchanged some kind of words , TM punched him. I don't think TM planned on assaulting GZ any more than GZ planned on hunting down TM.

And then finally, no one can ever explain WHY Trayvon would attack an older man who was scaring him. We know George's *possible* motives in detaining him: he was fed up with ******** that always get away. He was in the process of helping the police catch Trayvon. He was cussing at the dispatcher. He was armed. He was running. He sounded intoxicated to me (in the later interview, his voice is totally different). But what about Trayvon? Would that be the normal flow of his actions? Coming home from the store, someone stalks him, he runs. So where in that does he decide to become the hunter? Why?

He is a teenager who made a poor decision just like GZ was an adult who made a poor decision ? Does it have to be that complicated ?

He did the prudent thing, and tried to get away. Then he saw a short fat white dude *still* following him. He was pissed about it ... teenagers are impulsive ... and he walked towards him a few steps and said 'why are you following me?'. He didn't like the answer, so he punched the guy. Why is this far fetched or hard to believe ? It makes as much sense as GZ trying to detain him.

Is there a history of that from him? His parents sure don't think so.

Who knows - he had a media time scrubbing the internet of his presence. Right ? We know that happened. We know his parents lied about his past. I don't blame them, either - but they are a poor source for information like that.

As Serino said, he was a kid with a future.

Becuase Serino knew him so well ?

If evidence had come out that Trayvon had exhibited this kind of aggression before, I'd look at the case differently. If the defense can show that attacking George was in Trayvon's nature, I might change my mind. But knowing what we know about George, I'd say rash shoving and grabbing is right in line with how he was acting and what his history is. It fits right in, while Trayvon would have to have acted OUT of character. That's why I find his story ridiculous. Maybe if he just told what really happened it would be better for him, but the story he told is not the truth.

I really don't think we have any real insight into either persons actual character. If you think you really know either of them from the things you have read here on the internet, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

For those patiently waiting for a link to the newest documents, I think the most relevant thing tweeted so far is:

http://twitter.com/jeffWeinerOS

No one interviewed by the FBI said they'd seen ‪#GeorgeZimmerman‬ exhibit racial bias. ‪#TrayvonMartin‬

 

[Unabogie]

Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS ZImmerman's ex-fiancee tells FBI he's not a racist, but has a "bad temper" at times. Prone to "road rage." ‪#TrayvonMartin


Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS Sanford police investigator tells FBI ‪#GeorgeZimmerman‬ has a "little hero complex" but is not a racist. ‪#TrayvonMartin


Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS ‪#GeorgeZimmerman‬ investigators interviewed ‪#TrayvonMartin‬ cousin, who said "on a stack of Bibles" it was Trayvon's voice crying in 911 call.

 

[Bob001]

.....If you don't know the street name, what good is a house number ? Meet me at 1234 IDon'tKnow street ? If he had claimed he just needed a house number, i would agree with you. I thought that would be his claim earlier on. But it wasn't.
....

This is something that has always seemed odd to me. According to maps, there are only three streets inside this community of about 260 houses: Retreat View Circle goes around the entire perimeter, Twin Trees cuts through the middle, and Long Oak Way is a short leg between Twin Trees and Retreat View. GZ has not only lived here for years, he has regularly (if not obsessively) patrolled his community. Is it plausible that he doesn't know the name of one of the only three streets he could be on?
http://maps.google.com/maps?sugexp=...a=X&ei=Fvj-T-v8G_LC0AGV7ZGxCQ&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

 

[triforcharity]

If you don't know the street name, what good is a house number ? Meet me at 1234 IDon'tKnow street ? If he had claimed he just needed a house number, i would agree with you. I thought that would be his claim earlier on. But it wasn't.

Dispatchers can cross reference the number of a residence to his position on a map. They knew the name of the neighborhood, and with the advanced technology, even on a cell phone, the police will get a map of their current location. Now, I would assume that Sanford had this technology, but I am not certain, since he called the NEN. I know all my local cities and the county dispatch have it, so I would assume that SPD also has it.

Also, since they can pull up a map on their computers, they can reference the two street names in the complex with the corresponding number.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99916379/Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

284 pages

check out the map on page 145. To me it reads that the distance from the keys near the 'tee' to TM head is about 20 feet.

ETA: audio files:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...escue-radio-following-Trayvon-Martin-shooting
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...rd-Police-dispatch-following-Trayvon-shooting

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Dispatchers can cross reference the number of a residence to his position on a map. They knew the name of the neighborhood, and with the advanced technology, even on a cell phone, the police will get a map of their current location. Now, I would assume that Sanford had this technology, but I am not certain, since he called the NEN. I know all my local cities and the county dispatch have it, so I would assume that SPD also has it.

Also, since they can pull up a map on their computers, they can reference the two street names in the complex with the corresponding number.

I agree, they totally could figure it out.

But his story was that he couldn't think of the street name ... and in that regard, it makes sense.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I agree, they totally could figure it out.

But his story was that he couldn't think of the street name ... and in that regard, it makes sense.

Yesterday, while driving home from work, I challenged myself to name the streets that intersect mine but I've never driven down. I couldn't. The idea that Zimmerman couldn't remember the street names isn't that implausible to me anymore.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

This is something that has always seemed odd to me. According to maps, there are only three streets inside this community of about 260 houses: Retreat View Circle goes around the entire perimeter, Twin Trees cuts through the middle, and Long Oak Way is a short leg between Twin Trees and Retreat View. GZ has not only lived here for years, he has regularly (if not obsessively) patrolled his community. Is it plausible that he doesn't know the name of one of the only three streets he could be on?
http://maps.google.com/maps?sugexp=...a=X&ei=Fvj-T-v8G_LC0AGV7ZGxCQ&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

Yesterday, while driving home from work, I challenged myself to name the streets that intersect mine but I've never driven down. I couldn't. The idea that Zimmerman couldn't remember the street names isn't that implausible to me anymore.

Opposite side of the block from me, I cannot, right now, name 2 streets that I have walked down numerous times.

For that matter, hasn't everyone had an instance where they simply couldn't recall a piece of information, such as a street name, although they knew it ? An actor on TV or in a movie, for example ?

No, that's not an implausible part of the story, at least not to me.

 

[Cylinder]

Apparently Zimmerman's back-up weapon was a FNH 5.7. That's what he was carrying when he turned himself in.

ETA: That was a replacement weapon - not a back up. He had 3 spare mags as well.

 

[skepteen314]

You appear to be holding two different, incompatible ideas. That he both called the police to stop TM from getting away and intended to kill him.

Ok. Let me set you straight. I am going by what I remember, so if my recollection is incorrect, please do not be afraid to correct me. I interpreted the phone call and events like this: GZ called police or whomever to report a "suspicious" person(TM)and was advised by the operator that police were on their way. He described the "suspicious" person. Dissatisfied with the police and probably feeling a little pompous, said "These bleeping punks," and "These @$$%@*%$ are always getting away". GZ then advises the operator that he would follow TM and the operator states that that isn't necessary. GZ disregards what the operator had advised him and follows TM anyway. GZ gets to the 7-11 confronts Trayvon and says "What are you doing here?" Trayvon counters and says "Why are you following me?" A scuffle ensues. An unidentifiable "Help" is cried out. A shot is fired. Trayvon ends up dead.

How did I do?

 

[crimresearch]

Which nobody saw.


And even if there was a gun grab, if the grab was because he brandished it, his defense disappears.

And your proof of this brandishing? Do you know what that word requires under the law?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Ok. Let me set you straight. I am going by what I remember, so if my recollection is incorrect, please do not be afraid to correct me. I interpreted the phone call and events like this: GZ called police or whomever to report a "suspicious" person(TM)and was advised by the operator that police were on their way. He described the "suspicious" person. Dissatisfied with the police and probably feeling a little pompous, said "These bleeping punks," and "These @$$%@*%$ are always getting away". GZ then advises the operator that he would follow TM and the operator states that that isn't necessary. GZ disregards what the operator had advised him and follows TM anyway. GZ gets to the 7-11 confronts Trayvon and says "What are you doing here?" Trayvon counters and says "Why are you following me?" A scuffle ensues. An unidentifiable "Help" is cried out. A shot is fired. Trayvon ends up dead.

How did I do?

I quoted two posts you made, which seemed mutually exclusive. One was that the NEN phone call implied intent to murder TM, the other was that the NEN phone call implied intent to have the police arrest the TM.

I am not sure what that has to do with what you wrote above and setting me straight.

I'll help solve the problem by avoiding responding to your posts in the future.

 

[crimresearch]

This could very well be a point where George is reasonably in fear for his life.

But I noticed earlier how you try to stop the clock there and roll the rest up into a single event:



It seems that you are quite aware that between the point in time where George could be reasonably in fear for his life and the point where he actually shoots Trayvon, there is another point where George has ahold of his gun. why do you try to skip past this point?

Why do you keep making up pure nonense like that, and trying to get other people to defend your notions?

 

[crimresearch]

Just a question here. Do we know what kind of holster GZ used? Some are designed for quick access, and some, like the inside-the-waistband variety, are designed more for concealment. That might have something to do with what TM could see in the dark. And if TM was reaching for the gun, where was he reaching? If he took one hand off GZ to lean forward and reach toward his belt, that might have been an opportunity for GZ to take control of the fight.

The inside the waistband holster has been known for a long time.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Page 40:

Tracy Martin was not wrong when he said the last time he saw TM was 8:30. The last time he saw him was 8:30 ... Saturday night. Somehow, he didn't see him all day Sunday.

ETA: Further reading ... Tracy Martin was staying in a hotel in Orlando Friday for some convention ... Saturday is skipped over ...

 

[skepteen314]

I quoted two posts you made, which seemed mutually exclusive. One was that the NEN phone call implied intent to murder TM, the other was that the NEN phone call implied intent to have the police arrest the TM.

I am not sure what that has to do with what you wrote above and setting me straight.

I'll help solve the problem by avoiding responding to your posts in the future.

I don't know which one of my interpretations is correct.
Can anyone help me?

 

[crimresearch]

Ok. Let me set you straight. I am going by what I remember, so if my recollection is incorrect, please do not be afraid to correct me. I interpreted the phone call and events like this: GZ called police or whomever to report a "suspicious" person(TM)and was advised by the operator that police were on their way. He described the "suspicious" person. Dissatisfied with the police and probably feeling a little pompous, said "These bleeping punks," and "These @$$%@*%$ are always getting away". GZ then advises the operator that he would follow TM and the operator states that that isn't necessary. GZ disregards what the operator had advised him and follows TM anyway. GZ gets to the 7-11 confronts Trayvon and says "What are you doing here?" Trayvon counters and says "Why are you following me?" A scuffle ensues. An unidentifiable "Help" is cried out. A shot is fired. Trayvon ends up dead.

How did I do?

The basic narrative is well established, you reciting it and announcing that your 'interpretation' is setting someone straight makes no sense from this end.

 

[crimresearch]

I don't know which one of my interpretations is correct.
Can anyone help me?

Help you how?

By providing links to sources that spell out exactly why this cannot be charged as premeditated murder?

 

[Bob001]

Apparently Zimmerman's back-up weapon was a FNH 5.7. That's what he was carrying when he turned himself in.

ETA: That was a replacement weapon - not a back up. He had 3 spare mags as well.

Do we know this for sure? Other reports said he was carrying a 9mm. Or do you mean that after he shot and killed someone, he went out and bought another handgun?

Interestingly, that unusual 5.7 cartridge has been adopted by the Secret Service and a number of police departments*. When it was introduced some critics complained that the high-velocity bullets could penetrate ballistic armor. It also is the same weapon that the Fort Hood shooter used to kill 13 people. The magazines hold up to 20 rounds. What does it say about GZ's mindset that he thought this particular handgun -- above all others -- would be the right choice for concealed carry and home defense?
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7x28mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting