Moderated Will the 2012 Olympic Games in London be held?

[IMST]

20120711.2325

@Femke, #1440

In message number 1410, I acknowledged what Mashuna provided that there were 7.5 million people in London. Of these, 3.8 million were women. Then I asked how many of these 3.8 million women were working.

I should have separated the other question. It should have been, of the 3.7 million men (7.5 million total population – 3.8 million women = 3.7 million men), how many were working?

The ratio of woman to man is almost equal with regard to population. However, I believe that in the work force in the city, especially in offices, there are more men than women.

And how exactly is that belief relevant to London? It's not a city exactly known for strict planning that would separate working areas from residential ones. And 74% of working age men and 61% of working age women are employed in the City of London: http://lseo.org.uk/data/london-data not exactly a huge difference, especially if the thread is right that there are slightly more women than men in London.

 

[Border Reiver]

While only tangentally related to this fascinating prediction - that an omniscient and allegedly kind and forgiving (or is it jealous and vengeful) diety would consign 2/3 of its creation to an absolutely horrible death within 7 days of the date of this post, without offering a clear warning to his creation (seriously an Ancient Mesopotamian storm god speaking in an obscure modern dialect AND a means to correct the incorrect behaviour.

Wouldn't it have been much more effective to warn the peoples of the world by taking over the PA system at the last UN General Assembly meeting?

And if this "prophecy" is inevitable, why make it? If this is a determinist deity, then whether you are aware of the prophecy or not, your behaviour is set and no warning will alter what's going to happen.

And to those of you interested in how nuclear weapons will actually affect your city when they strike, I suggest this reference book - Effects of Nuclear Weapons.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The Holy Spirit does not give specific dates. He just says what will happen.

Shenanigans. You have indeed claimed that the Holy Spirit gives specific dates.

Also, changing the font to Calibri is not better than changing the font to Verdana. Just get rid of the font tags altogether. (Stop introducing them, please. The easiest way is to type your responses directly in the JREF message field in your browser instead of copying and pasting them from Word.)

 

[Elizabeth I]

Cien años de soledad

There are no winners in a nuclear war.

"A curious game. The only way to win is not to play."

The Holy Spirit said that it will quake or shake (“lilindol”) for eight hours. Anita Perez and I said that that is too long for an earthquake. Then I said that maybe what the Holy Spirit meant is that for every nuclear bomb that explodes, the ground will shake. And the Holy Spirit said yes.

Wow, a classic example of cold reading.

To bring it back to the topic: shouldn't a reunion with Peter and Steve have been the top priority for the Olympic planning committee?

They were going to work on it, but were too upset when they found out Keith Moon couldn't make it.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Oh, so God is KJV only then? Most (all) other translations have mankind in there. Doesn't "Sa pamamagitan ng tatlong ito, ang apoy, ang usok at ang nagniningas na asupre, ay pinatay nila ang ikatlong bahagi ng mga tao." translate to mankind?

20120712.0440

@svenax, #1455

The King James Version (KJV) is correct. The Holy Spirit said that we use the KJV because it is nearer the truth.

There are only a few versions that use men, such as Gideons International (another edition uses mankind) and New World Translation. Others use mankind or humankind or human race or all people. I believe in what the Holy Spirit recommends that is why I quote from the KJV. Please read http://aristean.org/wp081.htm titled “Holy Bible mentions men only, excluding women and children”.

So who is correct, the Holy Spirit or men (authors of various versions of the Holy Bible)?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Wow, a classic example of cold reading.

I would call it backpedalling from the claim that was made earlier in this thread in much more certain terms.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So who is correct, the Holy Spirit or men (authors of various versions of the Holy Bible)?

Since I don't believe the Holy Spirit exists, I reject this dichotomy altogether. What we're really talking about are different assertions made by people.

You keep trying to set this up so that you yourself won't be responsible for claims that you yourself have made.

 

[Mojo]

So who is correct, the Holy Spirit or men (authors of various versions of the Holy Bible)?

The Thirty-Nine Steps

The Bible is the word of God, isn't it? Who are you going to believe, God or God?

 

[sleepy_lioness]

20120712.0440

@svenax, #1455

The King James Version (KJV) is correct. The Holy Spirit said that we use the KJV because it is nearer the truth.

There are only a few versions that use men, such as Gideons International (another edition uses mankind) and New World Translation. Others use mankind or humankind or human race or all people. I believe in what the Holy Spirit recommends that is why I quote from the KJV. Please read http://aristean.org/wp081.htm titled “Holy Bible mentions men only, excluding women and children”.

So who is correct, the Holy Spirit or men (authors of various versions of the Holy Bible)?

Why bother with translations? Why not look at the original Greek? (something tells me I know the answer ...). After all, that's the language the Holy Spirit apparently chose to dictate in.

On your link you quote some verses that use 'men', eg, Matthew 15:38, where the Greek word is indeed 'men', 'andres', as in, a male human. The writer is making a distinction between men, women and children.

In the vast majority of cases when the KJV and other old translations use 'men', however, the word translated is the completely different noun 'anthropoi'. This is the case in the text from Revelation 9:18 on which you base your argument about 'a third of men'. 'Anthropos', while a masculine noun, has the primary sense of 'human being', which is why the more modern translation 'mankind', or the even more modern 'humankind' or 'humanity' is better. It's the generic word for a human being. In the seventeenth century, when the KJV was being written, the word 'men' would also have been understood to cover human beings of both sexes. It's only in the last thirty years or so that this has become more unacceptable and is today considered antiquated.

You're basing your whole idea that more men than women will die on a misunderstanding both of New Testament Greek and of seventeenth-century English. In both cases, it is clear that the 'third of humanity' referred to in Rev 9:18 is meant to cover both sexes.

 

[sleepy_lioness]

Just to prove the point, here's Mt 15:38:

οἱ δὲ ἐσθίοντες ἦσαν τετρακισχίλιοι ἄνδρες χωρὶς γυναικῶν καὶ παιδίων

And Rev 9:18 (anthropos becomes anthropwn in the plural genitive case):

ἀπὸ τῶν τριῶν πληγῶν τούτων ἀπεκτάνθησαν τὸ τρίτον τῶν ἀνθρώπων, ἐκ τοῦ πυρὸς καὶ τοῦ καπνοῦ καὶ τοῦ θείου τοῦ ἐκπορευομένου ἐκ τῶν στομάτων αὐτῶν.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The Bible is the word of God, isn't it? Who are you going to believe, God or God?

I'm not sure, but I think he's trying to say that divine revelation through a medium he knows is somehow more directly the word of God than is divine revelation through the authors and translators of the Bible. This sort of highlights the problem of asserting "divine revelation" as evidence: it's not evidence that we have here. At best, it's sort of like hearsay evidence.

That's also why I'm not interested in pretending to evaluate claims made by the Holy Spirit or by the medium (neither of whom are here on the forum), but those of PeaceCrusader. Trouble is, he is making claims but trying very hard to wriggle out of responsibility for making them.

That's also why I keep insisting on a commitment from him to admit that he himself was wrong if when the predictions he himself made here fail to come to pass. The closer we get to slamming the door on this set of predictions, the more he will dissociate himself from the claims he made.

 

[Mojo]

You're basing your whole idea that more men than women will die on a misunderstanding both of New Testament Greek and of seventeenth-century English.

And presumably on the Holy Spirit's poor memory of what it originally said.

 

[sleepy_lioness]

And presumably on the Holy Spirit's poor memory of what it originally said.

Yeah, the KJV alone crowd are some of my favourite Christian nutters. It's kinda like, we think the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, but learning Greek's a bit hard, so we've got to fix the exact Word of God somewhere else. And Pentecostals, which I assume poor old PC is, like to take it one step further: "who cares what the text actually says? The Holy Spirit gives me preferrential access to its meaning!".

On a related note, the Biblical scholar James Barr made a very good point once about fundamentalists. He said that they're the ones who don't take the Bible seriously, never mind literally, since they try to explain away its contradictions and difficulties, whereas mainstream scholars (whom they would decry as godless liberals) take the text at face value and try to understand and account for those same difficulties, and are therefore taking it both more seriously and more literally. PC would no doubt denounce me as a godless liberal, but I can read and understand what the texts actually say, whereas he can't.

 

[Marcus]

I'm not sure, but I think he's trying to say that divine revelation through a medium he knows is somehow more directly the word of God than is divine revelation through the authors and translators of the Bible. This sort of highlights the problem of asserting "divine revelation" as evidence: it's not evidence that we have here. At best, it's sort of like hearsay evidence.

That's also why I'm not interested in pretending to evaluate claims made by the Holy Spirit or by the medium (neither of whom are here on the forum), but those of PeaceCrusader. Trouble is, he is making claims but trying very hard to wriggle out of responsibility for making them.

That's also why I keep insisting on a commitment from him to admit that he himself was wrong if when the predictions he himself made here fail to come to pass. The closer we get to slamming the door on this set of predictions, the more he will dissociate himself from the claims he made.

His central claim seems to be that this medium is most definitely channeling the Holy Spirit (or Jesus Christ). I have asked over and over if he will renounce this claim when the Olympics start but he simply won't answer.

 

[dafydd]

Peace Crusader, if the war does not take place next Wednesday will you admit that this woman was not channeling the holy spirit?

 

[SezMe]

If you think that your question is not being answered, please raise it again.

PearceCrusade, I know that you have stated you will admit that you were wrong and following a false god if events don't come to pass as predicted. Good for you. But you have not stated what your attitude will be regarding the old lady. So let me ask you a simple question that can be answered yes or no:

Will you completely abandon the old lady if your (her) predictions don't come true?

3^rd rock from the sun.

PearceCrusade, the above question is, IMO, very important. Please reply.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

His central claim seems to be that this medium is most definitely channeling the Holy Spirit (or Jesus Christ). I have asked over and over if he will renounce this claim when the Olympics start but he simply won't answer.

20120712.0600

@Marcus, #1474

Yes, I believe that the medium Ka Apaz or Maria Liwayway Alvaran, the 73-year-old blind woman from Baliwag, Bulacan, Philippines, is channeling the Holy Spirit. [Not “sapi” (an extraneous spirit shares with the spirit of the person in the physical body) but “lakip” (the spirit of the person leaves the physical body, just this extraneous spirit appropriates the body)]. The Holy Spirit, I believe, after eleven years (1983-1994) is the spirit of Jesus Christ who we call Ama (when capitalized, it is translated from Filipino to English as God the Father). You may read about this in http://aristean.org/wp113.htm titled “From doubt to belief”. The Holy Spirit is the one who said that it will be Wednesday [when the nuclear world war will occur] and the 2012 Olympic Games will not be held [because of this war].

Will I renounce what I believe in if the 2012 Olympic Games starts as planned (and the nuclear world war does not happen prior to this on a Wednesday)? I repeat what I said before, which may not have been directed to you, Marcus, on page 30, message number 1189, I said, “If the prophecies do not happen, then I will stop believing in that spirit but I will continue my search for the true Holy Spirit. I firmly believe in the Holy Bible. I firmly believe that there are three persons in one God, that God made Himself into three - as the Father who spoke in the Old Testament, as the Son Jesus Christ who spoke in the New Testament, and as the Holy Spirit who we talk to now. I know that there are many spirits – good and evil spirits. If that spirit is not the true Holy Spirit, then I will continue my search of Him. I hope the spirit who we talk to now is the true Holy Spirit so that I do not have to search anymore.”

 

[PeaceCrusader]

20120712.0645

Please read what is happening at the South China Sea:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/07/2012711144929236748.html
Tensions rise over South Sea island dispute

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/07/20127982313528608.html
ASEAN seeks to smooth South China Sea dispute

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/07/201273124725247147.html
How to resolve conflicts in the South China Sea

 

[George 152]

20120712.0440

@svenax, #1455

The King James Version (KJV) is correct. The Holy Spirit said that we use the KJV because it is nearer the truth.

There are only a few versions that use men, such as Gideons International (another edition uses mankind) and New World Translation. Others use mankind or humankind or human race or all people. I believe in what the Holy Spirit recommends that is why I quote from the KJV. Please read http://aristean.org/wp081.htm titled “Holy Bible mentions men only, excluding women and children”.

So who is correct, the Holy Spirit or men (authors of various versions of the Holy Bible)?

Isn't there anything you can get right.
Your 'bible' is an edited collection of folk tales, Jewish genealogy and customs.
Onto which has been added the story of some-one who never lived outside the minds of people who 'wrote' him in several decade after his supposed execution..
BTW are you all prepared to run away ?
Only 2 Wednesdays to go before anything associated with the Olympic Games happens

 

[PeaceCrusader]

10 Cents A Dance

PeaceCrusader, I am curious: What do your family and friends think of these prophecies? Are they also stocking up on draft guards, duct tape and Bibles?

Meanwhile, it's a lovely* day in Memphis, TN, USA.

*In the sense that we are getting some much-needed rain.

20120712.0500

@blue sock monkey, #1443

They are all waiting and watching. Doubtful. Tongue-in-cheek. Spectators only. They do not go to where I go to. I share what I heard. It is up to you to believe it or not.

As a test, the world will suffer drought and famine. Even though you have money, no one is selling.