General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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TSR said:
From the Stundies thread, brought back to where it is on-topic:


dz is so desperate to distact from its idiocy that it is channelling Tom Moran, a denier from the "Golden Age" of alt.revisionism who always referred to himself in the third person.

In any case, dz *still* hasn't understood that there has never been an adjustment down -- there have been different methodologies which have (and could have been expected to have) arrived at different totals.

dz has no such methodology that it has ever articulated, any more than it has a coherent narrative of the overall scope of the events collectively known as the Holocaust.

But, true to form, even when the idiocy is pointed out, it cannot just simply admit a mistake and move on since one of the deniers dearest if unspoken tactics in their denial is "falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" as if finding a small fault in the accepted history invalidates all of history. Deep down, they realize this is idiotic, but keeping up that facade requires them to never admit fault, lest they be hoist on their own petard.

A losing game, that, since there are so many other ways in which they have things bass ackwards one more isn't going to make that big a difference.
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Perhaps I should just lemmycaution what you said and nominate you for a stundie: TSR tells us that 1 is not less than 4 or that 1.5 million is not more than 80,000. On planet TSR, all numbers are equal. TSR also tells us that different instruments for measuring the same phenomenon on the same scale are expected to result in different totals. A ten pound weight might weigh 7 pounds or 12 pounds depending on how you measure it. But that doesn't mean instruments are not equally precise.

But wait. That isn't a distortion. That's what you really said. That's not going to work for a stundie. But stundies are kind of juvenile so let me try another approach: I just received a private message from my imaginary friend about TSR that said......


So, dz, let's go back to the thread in which it is on-topic, and you can enlighten us all as to the methodology you used to determine that millions of Jews documented by the Nazis themselves as having been shipped around behind the front lines never really existed.
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It's probably the same methodology you used to murder the 2.5 million Auschwitz victims by erasing them from the pages of history.
 
It's probably the same methodology you used to murder the 2.5 million Auschwitz victims by erasing them from the pages of history.[/QUOTE]



What a load of tosh DogZilla, once again no evidence supplied to backup your ridiculous ideas and fantasy history.
 
Dogzilla said:
Perhaps I should just lemmycaution what you said and nominate you for a stundie: TSR tells us that 1 is not less than 4 or that 1.5 million is not more than 80,000. On planet TSR, all numbers are equal. TSR also tells us that different instruments for measuring the same phenomenon on the same scale are expected to result in different totals. A ten pound weight might weigh 7 pounds or 12 pounds depending on how you measure it. But that doesn't mean instruments are not equally precise.

But wait. That isn't a distortion. That's what you really said.
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No, I never mentioned "instruments" at all.

I very clearly said "methodologies".

And if you think that, for example, looking at a ten pound weight is the same as submerging it in water, measuring the displacement and using using a guesstimate as to its density to calculate a number is the same as weighing it using a spring-activated bathroom scale is the same as weighing it using a properly calibrated digital scale, there's little anyone here can to but onctinue to point and laugh at you.
Dogzilla said:
That's not going to work for a stundie. But stundies are kind of juvenile so let me try another approach: I just received a private message from my imaginary friend about TSR that said......
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See, the difference here is that Nick does not have a history of lying and distortion which you have just given us two more examples of, and so does have something we big kids call "credibility". You do have the former, and so have none of the latter.
Dogzilla said:
It's probably the same methodology you used to murder the 2.5 million Auschwitz victims by erasing them from the pages of history.
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All of that, just to dodge an uncomfortable question (AGAIN)?

Do you really think you're being clever and not pathetically obvious in your avoidance?
 
Charles Traynor said:
Public impression of the holocaust is derived from representations presented in the media. It seems like the crook Wiesel is a guest on Oprah Winfrey’s show every other week.....
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Now let us set our minds back to when Holocaust Deniers were promoting "Richard Krege". Richard Krege lied about doing a GPR survey of Treblinka. His lie was exposed in full by Ms Colls, a forensic archeologist who actually did the survey and found the burial pits, that Richard Krege denied existed.

David Duke, Robert Faurisson, Fredrick Töben and Michele Renouf had no problem sitting next to Krege in Iran at the denier's conference to inform the public. NAFCASH's assertions are still based on the work of Richard Krege. Now let's consider that holocaust deniers have quoted the known liar Richard Krege for ten or so years and haven't retracted or clarified false evidence invented by Krege. Now let us also consider that not one member of this forum has ever quoted Wiesel.

Is it not clear that the holocaust denial cult is promoting false propaganda in media as evidence of real history? Is anyone on this forum doing the same concerning Wiesel? Where?
 
Matthew Ellard said:
Now let us set our minds back to when Holocaust Deniers were promoting "Richard Krege". Richard Krege lied about doing a GPR survey of Treblinka. His lie was exposed in full by Ms Colls, a forensic archeologist who actually did the survey and found the burial pits, that Richard Krege denied existed.

David Duke, Robert Faurisson, Fredrick Töben and Michele Renouf had no problem sitting next to Krege in Iran at the denier's conference to inform the public. NAFCASH's assertions are still based on the work of Richard Krege. Now let's consider that holocaust deniers have quoted the known liar Richard Krege for ten or so years and haven't retracted or clarified false evidence invented by Krege. Now let us also consider that not one member of this forum has ever quoted Wiesel.

Is it not clear that the holocaust denial cult is promoting false propaganda in media as evidence of real history? Is anyone on this forum doing the same concerning Wiesel? Where?
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I can't seem to find the link to Ms Coll's final report. Could you please post it again?
 
Dogzilla said:
So where did they go? I imagine Israel, the United States, Australia. I don't know that is where they went but I think those would be good places to look for them.
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Australia
From 1933 to 1939, Australia absorbed between 7,000-8,000 Jewish refugees from Nazism, many from Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia.
http://www.ijs.org.au/Jewish-Immigration-after-the-Second-World-War/default.aspx

United States of America
About 85,000 Jewish refugees (out of 120,000 Jewish emigrants) reached the United States between March 1938 and September 1939,

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005139

1) You haven't bothered to look and the evidence ends your theory
2) These are not the same people as those sent in trains to, say, Treblinka.
3) You are pretending to forget all the other evidence such as confessions by the COs, eyewitnesses, forensic archeology, German documents etc.

Oskar Strawczynski (who actually dug up the bodies for cremation at Treblinka).
The graves could never be emptied entirely, because blood mixed with water accumulated at the bottom. Motorized pumps were set up to draw it out. However, they could never manage to drain the bottom few meters, and so the graves were simply covered over.
 
Dogzilla said:
I can't seem to find the link to Ms Coll's final report. Could you please post it again?
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She hasn't finished and thus her final paper for Birmingham University has not been lodged for peer assessment. I have bad news for you. She came up with the evidence for Treblinka's trustees and as she said in January this year....

"I’m in discussions with a view to doing further work at the site. Hopefully I’ll be involved in a pilot this summer as the first survey is really only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the information that can be gleaned about Treblinka using archaeological methods.”

Do you want me to post the information she has released to date?
 
Retrieved from AAH with the offending bits snipped
Originally Posted by Charles Traynor
I did receive those bullets points privately and to be honest I can’t remember which page I linked to on the Holocaust Denier website.
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Gee, if there were only some way for you to go back and see that post to verify what you had posted...


< note to ct: when you see a statement like that underlined like that, it is a hyperlink to a citation illustrating the point in question -- in this case, that first post (reposted now for the second time) >
However, I feel justified in posting the BP’s in full because the exterminationists here continued to deify Zisblatt until renegade Believers finally admitted she was full of BS.
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I'm very sorry, but *you* are responsible for your behaviour, and the bottom line is you broke a rule.

Learn from it and move on.

Oh, and unless you can back up your assertion about deification above with some actual quotes, you should probably stop posting lies about it (assuming you really care about your credibility).

Of course, then you would have to explain why, if this was all about Zisblatt, you posted and reposted and reposted and reposted the other 9 points...

Originally Posted by Charles Traynor
If the bullet points had remained posted on the thread it would have saved a lot of hassle trying to convince the membership of Zisblatt’s mendacity.
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There was no such hassle, because as has been pointed out to you deniers each time you bring her up SHE HAS NO IMPACT AT ALL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM ON THE HISTORICITY OF THE HOLOCAUST.
Originally Posted by Charles Traynor
< whine that "most exterminationists here" don’t bother checking links along with a demonstrably incorrect motivation for that behaviour having to do with "criticism" of normative history >
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Well, I fail to see how that follows, since once again SHE IS NOT PART OF THE NORMATIVE UNDERSTANDING OF THE HOLOCAUST.

We don't generally waste time on denier trash sites because experience has shown that they are, well, trash.

It also does not follow since you have never offered any criticism of that understanding, preferring instead to whine about irrelevancies.

Of course, you could offer an alternative narrative which does not rely on ignoring most of the evidence and distorting what is left, as you have done just above.
 
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Matthew Ellard said:
She hasn't finished and thus her final paper for Birmingham University has not been lodged for peer assessment. I have bad news for you. She came up with the evidence for Treblinka's trustees and as she said in January this year....

"I’m in discussions with a view to doing further work at the site. Hopefully I’ll be involved in a pilot this summer as the first survey is really only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the information that can be gleaned about Treblinka using archaeological methods.”

Do you want me to post the information she has released to date?
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But, I read somewhere that "We have seventy years of excuses for why we can't look for that evidence."
 
So because they are missing, they didn't survive and because they didn't survive, they must've been murdered. The problem is that you don't have any evidence they were actually murdered. You just don't have clear evidence of anything else.
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No, not only because they are gone ("missing") but also because perpetrators (officials, guards, conscripted prisoners) have admitted to the murders, because survivors (including burial and cremation workers) have testified in various forums to witnessing the crimes and their testimonies converge, because forensics studies - like that of Lukaszkiewicz and Sturdy Colls at Treblinka and the District Museum in Konin for Chelmno - have found at murder sites remains and other features consistent with other evidence for the mass murders, because deportation records place Jewish deportees at these sites, because bystanders and observers have given testimony again consistent with other evidence of the mass murder, because of German documents like the Hofle telegram and Ganzenmuller letter, the latter confirming the final destination of the Treblinka transports to be, well, Treblinka, because of the comment on unburied corpses at Treblinka in the OK Ostrow war diary, etc.

By "you don't have evidence," Dogzilla must mean "you have a lot of evidence that I don't like and prefer to ignore."
 
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It's kind of sad how he doesn't merely ignore it, he pretends it doesn't exist or isn't evidence, period, despite the fact that he refuses to actually look at it.
Aulus Agerius said:
...
Perhaps you ought to decide on a generally applicable standard of proof and then work out which bits of history you are prepared to accept.
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He calls it "relevance" and it seems to be defined as "anything I actually want to respond to". For some reason, documents directly relating to the claims he makes are apparently not "relevant" and he will never read them, no matter how many times they are bought up. This is inferred, since Doggie has been remarkably reluctant to simply say what he considers relevant, only what he doesn't.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Yet the big dogs of Team Holocaust, the Zionist neocons, are hip deep in conflicts and terrorism and assassinations all over the planet Earth.
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Could you elaborate please? Which big dogs of this non-existent Team Holocaust are you refering to? Also which conflicts, terrorist acts etc.?
 
Dogzilla said:
That was Multivac's false dichotomy, not mine.
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What false dichotomy did I raise?

You said:

Dogzilla said:
There is no substantial evidence that we didn't exterminate the Japanese.
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I replied with:

Multivac said:
Apart from the fact that they were still alive at the end of the war.
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Where is the false dichotomy?

Have any of the Japanese people that were interned in the US ever said that the US tried to exterminate them, or their friends and relatives? Have any of them siad there were US gas chambers or medical experiments?
 
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Charles Traynor said:
Public impression of the holocaust is derived from representations presented in the media. It seems like the crook Wiesel is a guest on Oprah Winfrey’s show every other week, and he is usually found within arm’s reach of US presidents during televised holocaust memorial events.

To top it off, Night (the book he probably never wrote), is mandatory reading for impressionable young school children in many US states. This monster really is the public face of holocaust hatred.
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You do realise that the US is not the whole world?

Personally I was barely aware of Elie Wiesel before reading this thread, and what little awareness I had was gleaned form discussions such as this. Certainly in the UK he is not well known, is not on talk shows and doesn't hang around with our politicians. Very few people here watch Oprah and would only see a few seconds of any American holocaust memorial events on the news.

He may be a hate figure to you and other holocaust deniers, but I would be surprised if many people outside the US have heard of him
 
The Denial Delusionists have yet to present any hard evidence that Wiesal is a liar, just a youtube link and a link to a whacko website, that does not constitute hard evidence.
 
But, but but -- isn't it obvious? He's a liar because he Jooosh!

not that denial and antisemitism are inextricably intertwined or anything...
 
Dcdrac said:
The Denial Delusionists have yet to present any hard evidence that Wiesal is a liar, just a youtube link and a link to a whacko website, that does not constitute hard evidence.
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Are you saying that Carolyn Yeager is not a reputable historian or any kind of authority?

But...but Charles Traynor highly recommends her.

:jaw-dropp
 
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