Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Natural Born Skeptic]

If anyone was cherry picking this thread, they could find an endless number of errors, unbelievable speculation, and incorrect assumptions. That's what happens when information dribbles out in bits and pieces and tests are being conducted behind the scenes.

It's also what happens when people can't think critically. The author of the article in question is not speculating without have any facts. All of the facts have long since been released that allow us to know that the shot was determined to be "intermediate range". But instead the author fixates on the term "aimed" to try and suggest it means GZ was not in close contact with him. That's just one more case of a person doing everything possible to confirm their confirmation bias and facts be damned, nothing more. No different than the Treehouse site really, just the opposite side of the same coin.

 

[crimresearch]

The appearance at this point is that the CJ system is handling Zimmerman by routinely following the rules as written.
As time unfolds, that is leaving a lot of the predictions, speculation, and outright mispreporting from the media in the dust.

Rearguing something that has been proven wrong, like 'non-bondable', rephrasing earlier claims like 'the judge upheld the prosecution's passport motion', and so on, does nothing to advance the discourse. Neither does demanding that people admit to positions they never posted.

The facts as they stand are that Zimmerman is out on bond, the amount is reasonable by definition per the US Constitution, and neither the prosecution or the judge seem to have committed any violations of law or standards.

If anyone has anything at all relevant to the facts of the Zimmerman case, particularly anything with links to an authoritative legal source, I'd love to see it.

 

[crimresearch]

The court's order setting bond is bizzare. He claims to have evidence that Zimmerman was preparing to flee the country, yet decides on a bond that he knows the defendant can easily meet with money to set up in a non-treatied country to spare.

What is bizarre about the judge *not* violating the Constitution and the laws of Florida on bond?

What is a non-bizarre bond for murder 2 given these circumstances?

 

[triforcharity]

The court's order setting bond is bizzare. He claims to have evidence that Zimmerman was preparing to flee the country, yet decides on a bond that he knows the defendant can easily meet with money to set up in a non-treatied country to spare.

I think he had to by law. I think by adding the GPS, no visiting O-S airport, no leaving Seminole County, 48 hr check ins, surrendered passport, no control over his money now, and the increased bond, kinda eased the judge's mind about his ability to flee.

I personally don't AGREE with it, but there's nothing I can do about that.

 

[Unabogie]

It's also what happens when people can't think critically. The author of the article in question is not speculating without have any facts. All of the facts have long since been released that allow us to know that the shot was determined to be "intermediate range". But instead the author fixates on the term "aimed" to try and suggest it means GZ was not in close contact with him. That's just one more case of a person doing everything possible to confirm their confirmation bias and facts be damned, nothing more. No different than the Treehouse site really, just the opposite side of the same coin.

Which is exactly what I wrote.

Again, I was looking for a discussion on the topic since this thread was shut down by rudeness.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

What is bizarre about the judge *not* violating the Constitution and the laws of Florida on bond?

What is a non-bizarre bond for murder 2 given these circumstances?

I don't think that's what is bizarre, I think the judge theorizing that GZ was planning to flee the country is bizarre.

 

[Rare Truth]

Sort of the anti Jeralyn Merritt. A lawyer who is blogging about the case, but who thinks George is a murderer. Different commenters, different perspective, some good information.

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

*I'm not endorsing everything he says, but since we keep getting "Jeralyn's take" on various developments, this could serve as a counterweight.

Thank you for that.

Leatherman's last commentary there is surely a puzzler.

Frederick Leatherman says: July 8, 2012 at 6:00 pm
How does he grip the gun with his right hand while he is pinning TM’s left arm against his side using the upper part of his right arm, juggle the gun and squeeze off a shot so that the bullet enters TM’s chest 1 inch to the left of the midline and 1/2 inch below the nipple and travels straight back without deviating up or down, left or right?

 

[Cylinder]

What is bizarre about the judge *not* violating the Constitution and the laws of Florida on bond?

Of course, preperation for flight is one of the exceptions. The court found that Zimmerman was preparing to flee. If it actually beleived that finding it could and would order pre-trial detention.

 

[johnny karate]

Rearguing something that has been proven wrong, like 'non-bondable', rephrasing earlier claims like 'the judge upheld the prosecution's passport motion', and so on, does nothing to advance the discourse. Neither does demanding that people admit to positions they never posted.

The passport motion was not dismissed - or upheld - because there was no passport motion.

There was only one motion presented by the prosecution in the second hearing. The motion to revoke bond. And that motion was granted.

All these assertions that there was a separate motion relating to the passport, or that the judge laughed it out if court, range from silly falsehoods to outright fantasy.

 

[Rare Truth]

I don't think that's what is bizarre, I think the judge theorizing that GZ was planning to flee the country is bizarre.

I don't think so. Z had motive and means.

He proactively and aggressively worked to hide assets and passport.

I don't think George counted on the GPS jewelry around his ankle.

 

[Cylinder]

I don't think that's what is bizarre, I think the judge theorizing that GZ was planning to flee the country is bizarre.

He not only theorizes - that was his actual finding.

Although there is no record of flight to avoid prosecution, this Court finds that circumstances indicate the Defendant was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution, but such plans were thwarted;

If the court beleived its own findings, why order bond? If it doesn't, why include the finding?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Of course, preperation for flight is one of the exceptions. The court found that Zimmerman was preparing to flee. If it actually beleived that finding it could and would order pre-trial detention.

Exactly, I actually just heard a couple of attorneys being interviewed on TV and they both fixated on exactly the same thing, one, that the judge had no actual evidence GZ was planning to flee, two, that if he truly believed that, it was bizarre for him to grant bail.

I suppose you could conclude he suspected it but since he had no evidence to back up his suspicion he decided to grant bail, confident that the electronic monitoring would stop GX from fleeing.

 

[johnny karate]

I don't think that's what is bizarre, I think the judge theorizing that GZ was planning to flee the country is bizarre.

Yeah, because I'm sure the guy facing a murder charge had a perfectly innocent explanation for his secret cache of money and hidden passport.

Unfortunately, he forgot to offer it to the judge to assuage any fears that the obvious conclusion was the correct one.

 

[Cylinder]

I suppose you could conclude he suspected it but since he had no evidence to back up his suspicion he decided to grant bail, confident that the electronic monitoring would stop GX from fleeing.

He was pissed that he couldn't interject himself into the publicity by forcing Zimmerman to testify, yet he didn't want a habeas motion in front of an appeal court with his equally bizzare statement that Zimmerman will have to testify to get bond.

IMHO, at least.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm posting from a mobile device, so I can't really check myself, but didn't the judge cite in his order a law that required him to grant bond despite his suspicions?

 

[Cylinder]

I'm posting from a mobile device, so I can't really check myself, but didn't the judge cite in his order a law that required him to grant bond despite his suspicions?

Absent flight risk, he would have. He found actual preperation for flight.

 

[triforcharity]

I don't think that's what is bizarre, I think the judge theorizing that GZ was planning to flee the country is bizarre.

Why do you think that?

Hidden passport.

Lot's of other people's money.

PayPal and website set up right before initial arrest.

Hiding money from not only the Court, but his own attorney.

What makes you think that the judge's beliefs are bizarre? It's not like this is the first time someone thought of leaving the country to avoid prosecution.

 

[crimresearch]

Absent flight risk, he would have. He found actual preperation for flight.

Apparently he also found a way to negate the flight risk, and followed the law.

 

[Rare Truth]

He was pissed that he couldn't interject himself into the publicity by forcing Zimmerman to testify, yet he didn't want a habeas motion in front of an appeal court with his equally bizzare statement that Zimmerman will have to testify to get bond.

IMHO, at least.

He said it was "important" - not that he "had to."

Judge Lester: "They were well aware of the money that was available, well aware of the amounts that were in controversy, here as far as large amounts. Mr. Zimmerman cannot sit back as I use again the euphemism a potted palm and let his wife testify falsely before the court when he knew well in advance of the hearing the amounts of money in controversy. Nor can he allow his attorney stand up to make misrepresentations, not by your fault whatsoever Mr. O'Mara, you were completely candid and honest with the court as you have always been. Uh, and he can't sit back and obtain the benefits of a lower bond or circumstances based upon those material falsehoods and that's what they were. So at this time I revoke his bond and place him without bond status.

Find that good cause exists based upon the material rep - misrepresentations that the court relied upon. Order him to surrender himself within 48 hours to the Sheriff of Seminole County if he wants to explain himself subsequent to that you may reset this for a bond hearing to give him an opportunity to explain to the court what happened and at this time it would be important for him to testify about what transpired."

 

[johnny karate]

Absent flight risk, he would have. He found actual preperation for flight.

And the judge apparently felt that risk of flight had been satisfactorily mitigated by the terms of the new bond. I'm not seeing why this is a source of confusion.