There was a Conspiracy to mislead US citizens into war with Afghanistan and Iraq

did he ever publicaly declare his fatwa void? gotta link?

Several times in this thread I have posted the links about the Taliban wanting to kick OBL out of Afghanistan and how key members of Al Qaeda told OBL that the Taliban was fed up.

After OBL issued the Fatwa the Taliban thought they had their excuse they needed to justify to the Afghan people kicking OBL out of Afghanistan.

Omar said, "Only muftis can issue fatwas." Bin Laden "is not a mufti and therefore any fatwas he may have issued are illegal and null and void."

As one of OBL captains said in a letter "OBL latest troublemaking with the Taliban and the Leader of the Faithful jeopardizes the Arabs, and the Arab presence, today in all of Afghanistan, for no good reason."

But OBL realizing he was about to be expelled by the Taliban decided it was best to lose face and acknowledge Mullah Omar as the leader of the faithful.

OBL's captain told OBL that he had to declare that "The Leader of the Faithful, who should be obeyed where he reigns, is Muhammad Omar, not Osama bin Laden. Osama bin Laden and his companions are only guests seeking refuge and have to adhere to the terms laid out by the person who provided it for them."

Given no choice OBL lost face by acknowledging Mullah Omar as the leader of the faithful and therefore made it obvious to all, (as he had to do), that any fatwas ordered by OBL while he was in Afghanistan were null and void as only Mullah Omar could issue any such orders as the Taliban Leader of Afghanistan government or fatwas as a mufti and leader of the faithful.
 
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Wait a minute.

The Omar quote about only muftis issuing fatwas was from Summer, 2001. He suggested that the UN or someone monitor UBL, but (IIRC) didn't threaten to kick him out of the country.

The OBL quote about being guests of the "leader of the faithful" and "troublemaking" in Afghanistan was from an email back in 1999.

I think you have events a little confused here.

Good article on some of these communications in the Atlantic.
 
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Wait a minute.

The Omar quote about only muftis issuing fatwas was from Summer, 2001. He suggested that the UN or someone monitor UBL, but (IIRC) didn't threaten to kick him out of the country.

The OBL quote about being guests of the "leader of the faithful" and "troublemaking" in Afghanistan was from an email back in 1999.

I think you have events a little confused here.

Good article on some of these communications in the Atlantic.

Yes in 1999 when the Taliban were so pissed off at OBL they were going to "kick out" OBL and remember that at the time of those letters the Taliban had killed OBL bodyguards when arresting OBL.

In 1999, the Taliban sent a group of 10 officers to replace Bin Laden's own bodyguards, touching off an exchange of gunfire, according to a New York Times story of Mar. 4, 1999. Three days later, bodyguards working for Taliban intelligence and the Foreign Affairs Ministry personnel took control of Bin Laden's compound near Kandahar and took away his satellite telephone, according to the U.S. and Taliban sources cited by the Times. http://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/04/wo...han-hosts.html

Taliban official Abdul Hakeem Mujahid, who was then in the Taliban Embassy in Pakistan, confirmed that the 10 Taliban bodyguards had been provided to bin Laden to "supervise him and observe that he will not contact any foreigner or use any communication system in Afghanistan," according to the Times story. The Taliban was working with the U.S. so they would take Bin Laden off their hands.

Mullah Omar says the Taliban would like to resolve the Osama bin Laden issue, so there can be “an easing and then lifting of UN sanctions that are strangling and killing the people of [Afghanistan].” [United Press International, 4/9/2004] http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8313

Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil says in the meeting, “You can have him whenever the Americans are ready. Name us a country and we will extradite him.” Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials. But a “political decision” was made by US officials not to continue the negotiations.

About 20 more meetings on giving up Bin Laden took place up until 9/11, all fruitless. [Washington Post, 10/29/2001] CIA station Chief Robert Grenier, said about the meetings; “They were saying, ‘Do something to help us give him up.’… I have no doubts they wanted to get rid of him. He was a pain in the neck.” The Taliban also proposed to hold bin Laden, who was at this time a prisoner, in one location long enough for the US to locate and kill him.

The Taliban became so frustrated that they even offered to pay for the missile strike on Bin Laden. However, this offer was also refused by US officials. [Intelligence Newsletter, 4/19/2001] http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/11/...n-and-blew-it/

etc,etc,etc,etc.
 
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<Snip lots of words that may or may not be true as they are not cited nor are they common knowledge>

So yes the US expected to find some really, really, OLD, WMD's but those were useless and not what Iraq was accused of having/making etc.

I think you have failed to grasp that declassified documents have proven that the Bush administration knew, (because they were told), that there were no Iraq/Al Qeada connection and no WMD’s yet they continued to imply both were possible to justify the invasion of Iraq. They argued that lack of evidence was not evidence that there were no Iraq/Al Qeada connection or WMD’s
...

Why do you say both of these when they are mutually exclusive statements?

They didn't have any WMDs, and the WMDs they did have they got from the US. :confused:
 
Why do you say both of these when they are mutually exclusive statements?

They didn't have any WMDs, and the WMDs they did have they got from the US. :confused:

Wow! Do you really think that Iraq having mobile anthrax labs and possible nuclear weapons where we "don't want the smoking gun to be in the form of a mushroom cloud" are the same thing as some old buried, since 1992, pile of rusted and useless chemical weapons that the US sold to Iraq and are no longer potent as they far exceeded their shelf life as the same thing?

Do you REALLY?
 
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CK, you are 0 for 2 with the links that you copy / pasted from wherever. Linky no worky.

Perhaps a better venue for your work would be a blog or a book even?
 
CK knows how to cut and paste, but every link he posts goes to

Error 404 Page not Found!

How about that?

Over the years I have collected information regarding the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and etc in my documents folder where I keep the related sub category folders.

So when a question is asked I go to my documents folder and pull up the related folder of information pertinent to the subject and/or question at hand.

Unfortunately it means that some of the links are old and have been changed but if you just enter the related information above the link you will find several main stream news reports as well as some very well done studies by professors and professionals related to the subject, such as intelligence officials historians etc.

Every time anyone has been kind enough to point out a link does not work I have quickly fixed it.

Also why don't you who have built up some overwhelming emotions about the information that has been posted try to stop attacking the messenger.

One minute there is a complaint that I am posting information that I am reading as verification that what I'm saying has been reported by many main stream news sources.

But then I am a bad guy for suggesting that mainstream news sources have reported the very same thing that I'm suggesting, (Americans were mislead).

Are they, MSM, also wrong, like I am, for coming to the same conclusions that I have been discussing on this thread, (Americans were mislead)?

I came to the conclusion based on what the MSM has been suggesting, (Americans were mislead), in news publications and books world wide so shouldn't all that hatred and anger be directed at the MSM for reporting it FIRST?


So I'm damned if I do report what the MSM says and I'm damned if I don't report what the MSM says, (large blocks of text and or dozens of links confirming the MSM said FIRST).

Do you guys think that one day I said hey I'm just going to make up a story that the American people were mislead into the Iraq and Afghan war with out reading as much information relevant to the subject as possible that brought me to the same conclusion as other news sources have reached?
 
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Assuming facts not in evidence.

I am going as fast as I can to fix the links here they are:

This one is the times story where bin laden was arrested by Taliban http://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/04/world/terror-suspect-said-to-anger-afghan-hosts.html

Mullah Omar says the Taliban would like to resolve the Osama bin Laden issue, so there can be “an easing and then lifting of UN sanctions that are strangling and killing the people of [Afghanistan].” [United Press International, 4/9/2004] http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8313

Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, asked the U.S. for help in eliminating his Bin laden problem and even gave the coordinates to the U.S. for a missile strike. The Taliban had even offered to pay for the missile strike. http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/11/...n-and-blew-it/
 
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Counterpunch and globalist, oh my.

No problem if you just enter the info like I did into Google you will find many, MANY news reports so you can pick your favorite I just grabbed the one randomly.

You tell me the News source that you prefer and I will find the article for you. That’s how prevalent the news stories about this are.

Or how about government officials and declassified documents will they work? Would you believe the recently released State Department documents, from March 2000, about a proposed “gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Multan, Pakistan figured prominently in discussions” regarding the US geo-political goal in the region and how those damn Iranians were interfering with US goals by another proposed pipeline from Iran to India via Pakistan whose negotiations were “more advanced”, and how Pakistanis had gone to Tehran to meet with Iranian officials “to pursue these negotiations”. https://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB325/doc01.pdf

FIRST do you at least believe the Atlantic and the Wall Street journal when they both reported that the Taliban were so frustrated in January and February 1999 with OBL that they were about to kick OBL out of Afghanistan?

Do you believe the New York Times story which followed immediately after the emails about “Kicking out” OBL that the Taliban then violently arrested OBL in an exchange of gunfire and then sent emissaries to the US asking for help in dealing with OBL where “Taliban's leaders have at least three ways to deal with him that would be acceptable to the United States, senior American officials said.”

*They could arrange secretly for members of another nation's intelligence service to learn of his whereabouts in Afghanistan.

*They could deliver him discreetly to a neighboring country, where American law-enforcement and intelligence officers could try to apprehend him.

*Or they could keep Mr. bin Laden incommunicado in the hope that he might fade as a source of anti-American terrorism.

“Some American officials think this last solution the best, since it holds no risk of making Mr. bin Laden a martyr, which could inspire fresh attacks against the United States from his followers.”

If so then following the same chain of events which showed that the Taliban had been getting more and more fed-up with OBL until Mullah Omar ordered the violent arrest of OBL and sent emissaries to the US asking for help getting rid of OBL and then according to the Washington Post:

Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil says in the meeting, “You can have him whenever the Americans are ready. Name us a country and we will extradite him.” Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials. But a “political decision” was made by US officials not to continue the negotiations.


About 20 more meetings on giving up Bin Laden took place up until 9/11, all fruitless. CIA station Chief Robert Grenier, said about the meetings; “They were saying, ‘Do something to help us give him up.’… I have no doubts they wanted to get rid of him. He was a pain in the neck.” The Taliban also proposed to hold bin Laden, who was at this time a prisoner, in one location long enough for the US to locate and kill him. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A3483-2001Oct28&notFound=true

Ok we will pick up from here after I find out if you trust the above sources or if you need more sources to prove that we are up to this point being 1999 where any relations have completely broken down between the Taliban and OBL where by the Taliban are desperately negotiating with the US to take OBL off their hands.

So let me know if we have AT LEAST made it this far in which there is agreement so I can move on with what take place next with the Taliban and US negotiations.
 
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If the Taliban were so frustrated by OBL why didn't they just kill him like you allege they did to his ten body guards? (all I could find outside of condpiradroid sites was there was a dispute between the bodyguards and taliban protectors) They didn't need to fund a US missile strike when they could take him out with a thirty cent bullet.

You know if I had 10 years of my life to waste and enough filing cabinet space to fill with useless interdepartment memos, consolate telegrams, Freedom from information. Releases (LOL) I could probably knit together any sort of conspiracy my heart desires by "connecting the dots" . The thing is, your motives make no sense at all long term or even short term, they just don't pan out to any significant benefit when you weigh cost/benefit.

You probably imagine yourself as the next Woodward/Bernstein but it should be apparent that nobody cares. All hat no cattle. I find idealogues very boring. You are on the wrong forum, yes.
 
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You are aware that Saddam was helped into power by the US

Yeah, so?

and when Saddam asked for help putting down an attempted over through of his government by the Kurds the US sold him the chemical weapons to do it.

I believe he actually got those weapons from France and Germany. To the best of my recollection the USA never sold him WMD's or any of the equipment to make them.

As a mater of FACT the US, under both administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992.

The Senate committee's reports on 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', undertaken in 1992 after the Gulf war, give the time/date/destinations of the exported items. For example, on May 2, 1986, batches of bacillus anthracis -- anthrax -- were shipped to the Iraqi along with batches of bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning.

Other shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11, 1988; the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989; the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985; the Ministry of Health in April 1985 and Officers' City, a military complex in Baghdad, in March and April 1986.

The shipments to Iraq continued even after Saddam ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town and strong hold where the revolt to over-through Saddam was at its strongest. The gassing took place in March 1988, but a month later the components and materials of weapons of mass destruction were continuing to arrive in Baghdad from the US.

So yes the US expected to find some really, really, OLD, WMD's but those were useless and not what Iraq was accused of having/making etc.

This contradicts every other international investigation into the matter. Could you please cite some evidence for this like perhaps the actual reports?
 
If theTaliban were so frustrated by OBL why didn't they just kill him like you allege they did to his ten body guards? (all I could find outside of condpiradroid sites was there was a dispute between the bodyguards and taliban protectors) They didn't need to fund a US missile strike when they could take him out with a thirty cent bullet.

You know if I had 10 years of my life to waste and enough filing cabinet space to fill with useless interdepartment memos, consolate telegrams, Freedom from information. Releases (LOL) I could probably knit together any sort of conspiracy my heart desires by "connecting the dots" . The thing is, your motives make no sense at all long term or even short term, they just don't pan out to any significant benefit when you weigh cost/benefit.

You probably imagine yourself as the next Woodward/Bernstein but it should be apparent that nobody cares. All hat no cattle. I find idealogues very boring. You are on the wrong forum, yes.

Evidently OBL is the only individual in history that the taliban had in custody, wanted dead in the worst way and couldn't find a piece to shoot him with.
 
Evidently OBL is the only individual in history that the taliban had in custody, wanted dead in the worst way and couldn't find a piece to shoot him with.

Yeah because they didn't want to betray another Muslim. They had no problem betraying his 10,body guards who apparently must have been Irish Catholics.
 

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