CIA threatens "Press for Truth" producers over release of new documentary

[000063]

Again, lack of evidence for intent, and still ignoring that you are contradicting someone who you said you agree with.

Your mind-reading powers aside, why the reliance on walls-of-text? Those are difficult to parse. I'm pretty sure there have even been studies on the matter.

Black laid out the case, comprised of communications intercepts and other TOP SECTRET intelligence, showing the increasing likelihood that al Qaeda would soon attack the US.

Again, "increasing likelihood" does not mean "certainty", or that the US is the only target.

This contrasted with "American interests and America itself are likely targets of a terrorist attack" that was what Woodard said was the information that Black gave to Rice. But it turns out that it was Blee that actually gave the briefing to Rice, Hadley and Clarke, and that Blee clearly said that the “the attacks will be “spectacular,” they will be designed to inflict mass casualties against US facilities and interests". It is also clear form this information that Tenet, Black, and Blee believed the attacks were imminent and would take place inside of the US.

That sounds a lot like one man saying the sky is falling, not the US government. It also doesn't say what the targets are, or how, or when. Looks like you just have who and why.

Since no one could predict exactly what the al Qaeda terrorists were going to do,

Which, um, is saying that even if they expected some sort of serious attack on the US soon, they didn't know what form it would take.

being too specific could easily come back and make them look like a bunch of fools if for some reason this attack was postponed or canceled. This is the disconnect between what you believe and what can be said at a meeting with complete certainty.

You are making unfounded assumptions about their thoughts and motivations, which has always been the fly in your ointment. You have to prove what they believed, not just what they were told.

 

[paloalto]

Your claims, however, aren't just that they knew lots of Americans would be killed in the attack. They are that they knew the targets, and the method, as you say here:



And your logic on that is basic in the extreme, essentially:

a) they knew the full details of KSM's Bojinka plan, including the targets,
b) they knew in June 2001 that KSM was running the latest al Qaeda plot, therefore
c) "So by July 10, 2001 the CIA knew this plan would kill large numbers if not thousands of Americans and would result in the destruction of the WTC Towers and parts of the Pentagon and the Capitol building."

But all you're doing here is presenting partial information as though it was definitive, when that's not the case at all.

I'm not sure you've ever listed all the Bojinka targets, for instance - you tend to list those that were hit on 9/11, then say "other buildings", if you mention them at all. Here's a more complete list.



Is it possible that, in the 6+ years between this interrogation and 9/11, other targets may have been considered? Of course. The idea that Tenet definitively knew the attacks "would result in the destruction of the WTC Towers and parts of the Pentagon and the Capitol building" is absurd.

You also make it sound as though the CIA knew for certain KSM was directing the attacks, but again, that's overly definitive. The History Commons item on that is here - they received a report that he was sending people to "various countries, including the US" (so it's not specific as to target, even the country), and there is doubt expressed over at least a part of this:



So no, it's not correct to say as though it was some entirely established fact that they knew for sure in June/ July that KSM was directing the attacks.

But even if they did know it was him, and even if they knew the attacks were to be in the US - neither of which you have shown - that still doesn't necessarily mean those attacks would bear any relation to Bojinka. In fact in summer 2001 it would have been just as easy to make the case that they'd have tried something entirely different this time, different targets, different methods.

And so if you want to establish as a definitive fact that "[Tenet] knew that these terrorists were inside of the US as to take part in a plan by KSM to hijack several large commercial aircraft and fly these into the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon, and US Capital building" then you're going to have to do rather more than you've done so far.

The report that KSM was directing this huge attack that the CIA knew about came directly from the 9/11 Commission report, page 277. This report states, that; “ On June 12, 2001 a CIA report said that Khaled was actively recruiting people to travel outside Afghanistan, including to the United States where colleagues were already in the country to meet them to carry out terrorists related activities for Bin Laden. The CIA presumed from the details of this reporting that the person was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

But the CIA already knew a huge al Qaeda attack aimed at the US was in the works and that this plan would be spectacular and cause mass casualties. The only KSM plan directed at the US that I am aware of was the KSM Bojinka plot, given to the CIA by the Philippine intelligence which had targeted many buildings in the US using hijacked aircraft, these most important of these building in my opinion being the World Trade Center Builds, towers 1 and 2, the Pentagon and the Capitol building. This plan also targeted other building in the US. The August 6, 2001 CIA daily briefing for the President stated that surveillance of Federal buildings in Manhattan was consistent with a (terrorists attack involving) aircraft hijacking

But the CIA already knew a huge al Qaeda attack directed at targets in the US was in the works. They knew this attack was going to be spectacular and cause mass American casualties. They also knew that Nawaf al-Hazmi was already in the US in order to take part in this al Qaeda terrorist attack, the CIA could have assumed that Hazmi was one of the colleagues who was already in the country to meet the al Qaeda terrorists KSM had recruited to carry out terrorists related activities for Bin Laden and that his travel companion Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US so he could join Hazmi in this attack. So if they could not connect the these dots one has to ask why could they not connect Hazmi and later both Hazmi and Mihdhar to “the colleagues in the US” that were to meet with the KSM al Qaeda recruits. It looks like a couple of very simple dots to connect up to me. Certainly when both Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar were found by the CIA on August 22, 2001 to be inside of the US they should have connected them to KSM’s aircraft hijacking plan. The CIA and FBI HQ had already connected Mihdhar and even Hazmi to this huge al Qaeda attack inside of the US in July 2001.

But an even bigger question is why did the CIA using FBI HQ agents to do their dirty work shut down FBI criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found to be inside of the US when they knew a huge al Qaeda attack against targets inside of the US was imminent and knew by shutting down these investigations many Americans would be killed in these attack. Why when the former CIA deputy Chief of the bin Laden unit, Tom Wilshire, Deputy Chief the FBI ITOS unit, had all of the information necessary to prevent these attacks, not raise any alarm so these terrorists could be stopped before they carried out the horrific al Qaeda attack the CIA and FBI HQ were well aware of?

Why did Tenet, Back, and Blee refuse to allow Tom Wilshire from transferring the information on the Kuala Lumpur meeting to the FBI Cole bombing investigators, two times in July 2001, when the CIA knew that without this information, FBI Agents Ali Soufan and Steve Bongardt would never have the necessary information they needed in order to start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, and this alone would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the horrific attack the CIA and FBI HQ were aware of?

These are the 64 dollar questions.

 

[paloalto]

Again, lack of evidence for intent, and still ignoring that you are contradicting someone who you said you agree with.

Your mind-reading powers aside, why the reliance on walls-of-text? Those are difficult to parse. I'm pretty sure there have even been studies on the matter.

Again, "increasing likelihood" does not mean "certainty", or that the US is the only target.

That sounds a lot like one man saying the sky is falling, not the US government. It also doesn't say what the targets are, or how, or when. Looks like you just have who and why.

Which, um, is saying that even if they expected some sort of serious attack on the US soon, they didn't know what form it would take.

You are making unfounded assumptions about their thoughts and motivations, which has always been the fly in your ointment. You have to prove what they believed, not just what they were told.

I have already posted in detail what they believed:


Woodward wrote; "On July 10, 2001, CIA Director George Tenet met with his counter terrorism chief, Cofer Black, at CIA headquarters to review that latest on Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda organization. Black laid out the case, comprised of communications intercepts and other TOP SECTRET intelligence, showing the increasing likelihood that al Qaeda would soon attack the US. It was a mass of fragments and dots that nonetheless made a compelling case, so compelling to Tenet that he decided that he and black should go to the White House immediately. Tenet called Rice from the car, and said he needed to see her now.”

 

[MikeW]

But the CIA already knew a huge al Qaeda attack aimed at the US was in the works and that this plan would be spectacular and cause mass casualties. The only KSM plan directed at the US that I am aware of was the KSM Bojinka plot...

Yes, just as I said.

You present impressively definitive statements, saying "[Tenet] knew that these terrorists were inside of the US as to take part in a plan by KSM to hijack several large commercial aircraft and fly these into the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon, and US Capital building."

And yet when asked to back them up, we end up with selective quotes and guesswork, which even then can't justify what you've said already.

Well hey, carry on. But I've wasted enough of my life on this crap: I'm outta here.

 

[000063]

Good idea.

 

[paloalto]

Yes, just as I said.

You present impressively definitive statements, saying "[Tenet] knew that these terrorists were inside of the US as to take part in a plan by KSM to hijack several large commercial aircraft and fly these into the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon, and US Capital building."

And yet when asked to back them up, we end up with selective quotes and guesswork, which even then can't justify what you've said already.

Well hey, carry on. But I've wasted enough of my life on this crap: I'm outta here.

In spite of my many questions you have been asked, you singularly are unable to answer why when the CIA and FBI HQ knew a huge al Qaeda attack was just about to take place inside of the US, and even knew Mihdhar and Hazmi were going to take part in this attack, the information that Mihdhar and by association Hazmi were going to take part in this attack came from Tom Wilshire's email on July 23, 2001 back to Blee, Black, information that was passed on to Tenet, they allowed the FBI HQ agents that they had control over to shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi?

Let see if we can connect the dots.

First the CIA knew a huge al Qaeda attack , organized by al Qaeda terrorists leader bin Laden, is aimed at the US and is just about to take place. The information on this attack is so profound that the CIA director George Tenet sets up a meeting with Rice and calls her from his car, and with Blee, and Black briefs Rice on this attack, and that something should be done immediately to prevent this attack.

But Tenet, Black, and Blee, leave out the fact at this meeting that al Qaeda terrorists Nawaf al-Hazmi was already in the US in order to take part in this attack, and that his travel companion, Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US so he could join Hazmi in this attack.

The CIA had been told on June 12, 2001 that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was directing this huge attack and was recruiting al Qaeda terrorists to link up with other al Qaeda terrorists who were already in the US, "their colleagues" in order to carry out terrorist attacks for bin Laden.

But the CIA already had been given the KSM Bojinka plot, the plan to hijack several large US airliners and crash these into the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon and the US Capital building.

On August 22, 2001 the CIA and the FBI HQ are informed by FBI IOS agent Margaret Gillespie that both al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US in order to take part in an al Qaeda terrorists attack.

So in the simplest terms the CIA had massive warnings of a horrific al Qaeda attack inside of the US that will cause mass causalities.

They also were told that it was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that was directing this attack and sending in more al Qaeda recruits to link up with al Qaeda terrorists already inside of the US. The CIA knew one of these al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US was Nawaf al-Hazmi. And that Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US, was Hazmi’s traveling companion, and had this visa so he could join Hazmi in any terrorist attack inside of the US. The CIA had already been given the Bojinka plot of KSM that described the hijacking of several large US commercial airliners and crashing these into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and the Capitol building.

On August 22, 2001 the CIA and FBI HQ were both told that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, clearly in order to take part in the al Qaeda terrorist attack they had been warned about. The CIA managers Blee, Black and Tenet, had even been told in July by Tom Wilshire, that Mihdhar, would be found at the next big al Qaeda attack.

We also know from the August 6, 2001 daily briefing given to the President of the United States, that the CIA knew that there had been surveillance by what were thought to be terrorists of Federal buildings in Manhattan consistent with a future plan for aircraft hijacking.

But we are told that in spite of these very obvious dots, the CIA just somehow for some unexplained reason could just not connect all of these very obvious dots together. (Was this because the CIA was not really the CIA, they were instead the CSA, the Central Stupidity Agency, may be that is the reason they could not connect these very obvious dots.)

But even if for some GOD only knows reason they could not connect Mihdhar and Hazmi to the KSM hijacking plot, they had already connected Mihdhar and Hazmi to a terrorist attack inside of the US.

HELLO, HELLO, Knock, knock, knock, is anybody home? How simple and obvious can I make it.

So in spite of having all of this knowledge, the CIA with the FBI HQ agents they had corrupted did several and still today, unexplained things.

First Blee, Black, and Tenet refuse to allow Tom Wilshire, the former Deputy Chief of the CIA bin Laden unit, the very person who had blocked FBI Agent Doug Miller’s cable on Mihdhar from going to the FBI on January 5, 2000, and who had been moved over to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-May 2001 as Deputy Chief, to pass the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI and the FBI Cole bombing investigators. They actually refused two of his requests to pass this information to the FBI in July 2001. The CIA clearly knew that the Cole bombing investigators did not know about the Kuala Lumpur meeting or the fact that Walid bin Attash had been at this meeting with Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi planning the Cole bombing. The CIA had been keeping this information super secret from the FBI Cole bombing investigators and knew by hiding the photo of bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur that these FBI investigators would never have the necessary information to start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

But on August 22, 2001, the FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie found out from the INS that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and gave this information to Tom Wilshire and FBI Agent Dina Corsi. Corsi was given the task by Wilshire, to write up the EC to start an intelligence investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Both Corsi and Wilshire knew that if an intelligence investigation for Mihdhar was started, the FBI OIPR would almost never allow a parallel criminal investigation to be started for the same target, meaning this intelligence investigation will keep Bongardt from investigating and searching for Mihdhar.

In spite of Wilshire knowing that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were in the US to take part in a huge al Qaeda attack, “the big one” that will cause mass casualties, see DE 939 Wilshire’s email back to his CTC mangers, Blee, Black on August 23, 2001, this EC which was started at the behest of Wilshire, was labeled “Routine”, meaning this investigation had no real importance or urgency to finding Mihdhar or Hazmi quickly. Wilshire even reviewed this EC just before it was sent over to the FBI New York office on August 28, 2001.

When this EC was accidently routed to FBI Agent and Cole bombing investigator Steve Bongardt on August 28, 2001, Bongardt called Corsi immediately and said that this investigation should go to him and his team. Corsi said that because the EC contained a NSA cable, with restrictions on giving this to FBI criminal investigators, he had to destroy her EC and he could not start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. But we know from the DOJ IG report, that the permission for Corsi to send the NSA cable to the FBI Cole bombing investigators had been approved by the NSA general counsel the day before, on August 27, 2001. So Corsi had no legal right to block Bongardt’s investigation.

When Bongardt complained and stated that the NSA information was not connected to any FISA warrant, he requested that Corsi get a legal ruling from the FBI NSLU to see if he could start an immediate investigation for Mihdhar, knowing that they were inside of the US in order to take part in some horrific al Qaeda attack.

On August 29, 2001 Corsi told Bongardt that the NSLU attorney she had contacted, Sherry Sabol, had ruled that he could have no part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. But the 9/11 Commission report states that Sabol told Corsi on August 28, 2001 that since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant, Bongardt could take part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

These lies cost almost 3000 people their lives on 9/11. But it gets worse, much worse.

On August 29, 2001 Corsi send Bongardt an email that stated; “at such time as information is developed of a substantial Federal crime, (by Mihdhar and Hazmi), this information will be passed over the wall”.

In the DOJ IG report page 301-302, it says that Corsi knew by August 22, 2001 that the CIA had a photo of Walid Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur. This directly connected the mastermind of the Cole bombing that had killed 17 US sailors to both Mihdhar and Hazmi who were at this al Qaeda planning meeting at the same time as bin Attash. So Corsi already knew that there was information of a substantial Federal crime at least 6 days before she tells Bongardt that he has to stop his investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. She also knew that it would be illegal and serious Federal crime for her to block Bongardt's investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, yet she does this anyway.

She, Wilshire and the CIA all knew that the CIA had been deliberately hiding this photo of bin Attash from Bongardt so he would never have the information he needed to start any investigation for these al Qaeda terrorists. The CIA had known about the Walid bin Attash identification since January 4, 2001, about the same time Wilshire was given this same information. They all knew without some connection to the planning of the Cole bombing or some other crime, Bongardt will simply never have the information he needed to start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

But they all also knew that a huge al Qaeda attack is just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass casualties. In spite of knowing about this attack and knowing that blocking Bongardt’s investigation will allow this attack to take place, they all continued to either block Bongardt’s investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi or allowed Corsi to block Bongardt’s investigation of these two al Qaeda terrorists who will take part in this huge al Qaeda attack.

On August 30, 2001 the photo of Walid Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur was sent by the CIA to Rod Middleton, FBI Agent Dina Corsi's supervisor. So on this date he had the photographic proof that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. Yet in spite of being on the phone with Corsi shutting down Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, he never gave this horrific information to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt so Bongardt could start an investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to carry out some horrific al Qaeda attack.

On September 5, 2001, after the intelligence investigation was given to FBI Agent Robert Fuller, Fuller called Corsi to say he has gotten nowhere in his investigation and search for Mihdhar and he needed Mihdhar’s credit card number, which was known by Saudi Arabian Airlines since Mihdhar had flown into the US on July 4, 2001 on this airline. In spite of knowing that Fullers investigation has stalled out without this credit card number, Corsi refused to give Fuller permission to call Saudi Arabian Airlines and get this credit card number. This effectively blocked all forward progress in Fullers investigation. Six days later, on September 11, 2001 the attacks on 9/11 took place.

So these questions remain.

Why did Blee, Black and Tenet refuse to give the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi to the Rice, Hadley and Clarke on July 10, 2001. Tenet even said that had Rice taken him more seriously, she could have prevented the attacks on 9/11. But then why did he refuse to allow Wilshire permission to give the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators on July 13, 2001 just three days after the July 10, 2001 meeting at the White House, and again on July 23, 2001, when he must have known this would block the one investigation that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11?

Why did Wilshire work with FBI Agent Dina Corsi and SSA Rod Middleton to illegally shut down Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when they all knew that the result would be many Americans would be killed in the al Qaeda terrorist attacks that Bongardt could have prevented?

Why did Corsi block Fuller's investigation of Mihdhar when she knew he bhad failed to make any progress in his investigation and needed Mihdhar's credirt card number. What possible reason did she have to prevent Fuller from contacting Saudi Arabian Airlines to get this number?

Why did none of this information come out at the 911 Commission Public hearings when they had Tenet and FBI Director Robert Mueller testify under oath at these hearings?

The fact that this July 10, 2001 meeting took place was never even reported in the 9/11 Commission report, in spite of the fact that Rice, Tenet and Clarke all knew about this meeting when they testified at the 9/11 Commission hearings, and this information was given to Zelikow and Richard ben-Veniste by Tenet in a private meeting?

The 9/11 Commission report asked the question; Why did the CIA and FBI HQ not connect the fact that Mihdhar and Hazmi were in the US to their knowledge of a huge al Qaeda attack the CIA and FBI HQ knew was just about to take place? But the July 5, 2001 email from Wilshire back to Blee, Black, and Tenet had connected the people at the Kuala Lumpur meeting to the warnings of a huge al Qaeda attack, and his July 23, 2001 email to Blee, Black and Tenet, directed connected Mihdhar by name and by association, Hazmi to this huge attack? This was email collected by the DOJ IG, and was information that the 9/11 Commission claimed to have had.

Not only did the CIA and FBI HQ deliberately allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks that took place on 9/11, but the 9/11 Commission then covered over their criminal and nefarious deeds, even when they claimed to have had all of the same information that I have cited in this blog.

 

[beachnut]

This thread points right at the heart of the 9/11 issue.
...
EXPLAIN THIS IF YOU CAN! So far you have come up with absolutely nothing to explain this!

The thread is nonsense, a fake headline. You are off topic.

The OP is about a fake headline. You don't seem to know what the topic is, and you don't care as you make up fake conclusions about 911 issues. Did you read the OP? Is the headline real, or a fake? What do you do when someone robs you? Blame the CIA, or the FBI? I blame the person who did it. Why are you not on the CIA fixing the problems? Flight 93 passengers stood up and took action, all you do is make up silly conclusions about what people intentions were.

 

[shure]

Nice hack job on the posts in this thread.

I don't know why someone felt the need to start tampering with this thread, but some good posts were moved to the dust bin:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237606

 

[dafydd]

In spite of my many questions you have been asked, you singularly are unable to answer why when the CIA and FBI HQ knew a huge al Qaeda attack was just about to take place inside of the US, and even knew Mihdhar and Hazmi were going to take part in this attack, the information that Mihdhar and by association Hazmi were going to take part in this attack came from Tom Wilshire's email on July 23, 2001 back to Blee, Black, information that was passed on to Tenet, they allowed the FBI HQ agents that they had control over to shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi?

Let see if we can connect the dots.

First the CIA knew a huge al Qaeda attack , organized by al Qaeda terrorists leader bin Laden, is aimed at the US and is just about to take place. The information on this attack is so profound that the CIA director George Tenet sets up a meeting with Rice and calls her from his car, and with Blee, and Black briefs Rice on this attack, and that something should be done immediately to prevent this attack.

But Tenet, Black, and Blee, leave out the fact at this meeting that al Qaeda terrorists Nawaf al-Hazmi was already in the US in order to take part in this attack, and that his travel companion, Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US so he could join Hazmi in this attack.

The CIA had been told on June 12, 2001 that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was directing this huge attack and was recruiting al Qaeda terrorists to link up with other al Qaeda terrorists who were already in the US, "their colleagues" in order to carry out terrorist attacks for bin Laden.

But the CIA already had been given the KSM Bojinka plot, the plan to hijack several large US airliners and crash these into the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon and the US Capital building.

On August 22, 2001 the CIA and the FBI HQ are informed by FBI IOS agent Margaret Gillespie that both al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US in order to take part in an al Qaeda terrorists attack.

So in the simplest terms the CIA had massive warnings of a horrific al Qaeda attack inside of the US that will cause mass causalities.

They also were told that it was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that was directing this attack and sending in more al Qaeda recruits to link up with al Qaeda terrorists already inside of the US. The CIA knew one of these al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US was Nawaf al-Hazmi. And that Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US, was Hazmi’s traveling companion, and had this visa so he could join Hazmi in any terrorist attack inside of the US. The CIA had already been given the Bojinka plot of KSM that described the hijacking of several large US commercial airliners and crashing these into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and the Capitol building.

On August 22, 2001 the CIA and FBI HQ were both told that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, clearly in order to take part in the al Qaeda terrorist attack they had been warned about. The CIA managers Blee, Black and Tenet, had even been told in July by Tom Wilshire, that Mihdhar, would be found at the next big al Qaeda attack.

We also know from the August 6, 2001 daily briefing given to the President of the United States, that the CIA knew that there had been surveillance by what were thought to be terrorists of Federal buildings in Manhattan consistent with a future plan for aircraft hijacking.

But we are told that in spite of these very obvious dots, the CIA just somehow for some unexplained reason could just not connect all of these very obvious dots together. (Was this because the CIA was not really the CIA, they were instead the CSA, the Central Stupidity Agency, may be that is the reason they could not connect these very obvious dots.)

But even if for some GOD only knows reason they could not connect Mihdhar and Hazmi to the KSM hijacking plot, they had already connected Mihdhar and Hazmi to a terrorist attack inside of the US.

HELLO, HELLO, Knock, knock, knock, is anybody home? How simple and obvious can I make it.

So in spite of having all of this knowledge, the CIA with the FBI HQ agents they had corrupted did several and still today, unexplained things.

First Blee, Black, and Tenet refuse to allow Tom Wilshire, the former Deputy Chief of the CIA bin Laden unit, the very person who had blocked FBI Agent Doug Miller’s cable on Mihdhar from going to the FBI on January 5, 2000, and who had been moved over to the FBI ITOS unit in mid-May 2001 as Deputy Chief, to pass the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI and the FBI Cole bombing investigators. They actually refused two of his requests to pass this information to the FBI in July 2001. The CIA clearly knew that the Cole bombing investigators did not know about the Kuala Lumpur meeting or the fact that Walid bin Attash had been at this meeting with Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi planning the Cole bombing. The CIA had been keeping this information super secret from the FBI Cole bombing investigators and knew by hiding the photo of bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur that these FBI investigators would never have the necessary information to start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

But on August 22, 2001, the FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie found out from the INS that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and gave this information to Tom Wilshire and FBI Agent Dina Corsi. Corsi was given the task by Wilshire, to write up the EC to start an intelligence investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Both Corsi and Wilshire knew that if an intelligence investigation for Mihdhar was started, the FBI OIPR would almost never allow a parallel criminal investigation to be started for the same target, meaning this intelligence investigation will keep Bongardt from investigating and searching for Mihdhar.

In spite of Wilshire knowing that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were in the US to take part in a huge al Qaeda attack, “the big one” that will cause mass casualties, see DE 939 Wilshire’s email back to his CTC mangers, Blee, Black on August 23, 2001, this EC which was started at the behest of Wilshire, was labeled “Routine”, meaning this investigation had no real importance or urgency to finding Mihdhar or Hazmi quickly. Wilshire even reviewed this EC just before it was sent over to the FBI New York office on August 28, 2001.

When this EC was accidently routed to FBI Agent and Cole bombing investigator Steve Bongardt on August 28, 2001, Bongardt called Corsi immediately and said that this investigation should go to him and his team. Corsi said that because the EC contained a NSA cable, with restrictions on giving this to FBI criminal investigators, he had to destroy her EC and he could not start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. But we know from the DOJ IG report, that the permission for Corsi to send the NSA cable to the FBI Cole bombing investigators had been approved by the NSA general counsel the day before, on August 27, 2001. So Corsi had no legal right to block Bongardt’s investigation.

When Bongardt complained and stated that the NSA information was not connected to any FISA warrant, he requested that Corsi get a legal ruling from the FBI NSLU to see if he could start an immediate investigation for Mihdhar, knowing that they were inside of the US in order to take part in some horrific al Qaeda attack.

On August 29, 2001 Corsi told Bongardt that the NSLU attorney she had contacted, Sherry Sabol, had ruled that he could have no part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. But the 9/11 Commission report states that Sabol told Corsi on August 28, 2001 that since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant, Bongardt could take part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

These lies cost almost 3000 people their lives on 9/11. But it gets worse, much worse.

On August 29, 2001 Corsi send Bongardt an email that stated; “at such time as information is developed of a substantial Federal crime, (by Mihdhar and Hazmi), this information will be passed over the wall”.

In the DOJ IG report page 301-302, it says that Corsi knew by August 22, 2001 that the CIA had a photo of Walid Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur. This directly connected the mastermind of the Cole bombing that had killed 17 US sailors to both Mihdhar and Hazmi who were at this al Qaeda planning meeting at the same time as bin Attash. So Corsi already knew that there was information of a substantial Federal crime at least 6 days before she tells Bongardt that he has to stop his investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. She also knew that it would be illegal and serious Federal crime for her to block Bongardt's investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, yet she does this anyway.

She, Wilshire and the CIA all knew that the CIA had been deliberately hiding this photo of bin Attash from Bongardt so he would never have the information he needed to start any investigation for these al Qaeda terrorists. The CIA had known about the Walid bin Attash identification since January 4, 2001, about the same time Wilshire was given this same information. They all knew without some connection to the planning of the Cole bombing or some other crime, Bongardt will simply never have the information he needed to start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

But they all also knew that a huge al Qaeda attack is just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass casualties. In spite of knowing about this attack and knowing that blocking Bongardt’s investigation will allow this attack to take place, they all continued to either block Bongardt’s investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi or allowed Corsi to block Bongardt’s investigation of these two al Qaeda terrorists who will take part in this huge al Qaeda attack.

On August 30, 2001 the photo of Walid Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur was sent by the CIA to Rod Middleton, FBI Agent Dina Corsi's supervisor. So on this date he had the photographic proof that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. Yet in spite of being on the phone with Corsi shutting down Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, he never gave this horrific information to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt so Bongardt could start an investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to carry out some horrific al Qaeda attack.

On September 5, 2001, after the intelligence investigation was given to FBI Agent Robert Fuller, Fuller called Corsi to say he has gotten nowhere in his investigation and search for Mihdhar and he needed Mihdhar’s credit card number, which was known by Saudi Arabian Airlines since Mihdhar had flown into the US on July 4, 2001 on this airline. In spite of knowing that Fullers investigation has stalled out without this credit card number, Corsi refused to give Fuller permission to call Saudi Arabian Airlines and get this credit card number. This effectively blocked all forward progress in Fullers investigation. Six days later, on September 11, 2001 the attacks on 9/11 took place.

So these questions remain.

Why did Blee, Black and Tenet refuse to give the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi to the Rice, Hadley and Clarke on July 10, 2001. Tenet even said that had Rice taken him more seriously, she could have prevented the attacks on 9/11. But then why did he refuse to allow Wilshire permission to give the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators on July 13, 2001 just three days after the July 10, 2001 meeting at the White House, and again on July 23, 2001, when he must have known this would block the one investigation that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11?

Why did Wilshire work with FBI Agent Dina Corsi and SSA Rod Middleton to illegally shut down Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when they all knew that the result would be many Americans would be killed in the al Qaeda terrorist attacks that Bongardt could have prevented?

Why did Corsi block Fuller's investigation of Mihdhar when she knew he bhad failed to make any progress in his investigation and needed Mihdhar's credirt card number. What possible reason did she have to prevent Fuller from contacting Saudi Arabian Airlines to get this number?

Why did none of this information come out at the 911 Commission Public hearings when they had Tenet and FBI Director Robert Mueller testify under oath at these hearings?

The fact that this July 10, 2001 meeting took place was never even reported in the 9/11 Commission report, in spite of the fact that Rice, Tenet and Clarke all knew about this meeting when they testified at the 9/11 Commission hearings, and this information was given to Zelikow and Richard ben-Veniste by Tenet in a private meeting?

The 9/11 Commission report asked the question; Why did the CIA and FBI HQ not connect the fact that Mihdhar and Hazmi were in the US to their knowledge of a huge al Qaeda attack the CIA and FBI HQ knew was just about to take place? But the July 5, 2001 email from Wilshire back to Blee, Black, and Tenet had connected the people at the Kuala Lumpur meeting to the warnings of a huge al Qaeda attack, and his July 23, 2001 email to Blee, Black and Tenet, directed connected Mihdhar by name and by association, Hazmi to this huge attack? This was email collected by the DOJ IG, and was information that the 9/11 Commission claimed to have had.

Not only did the CIA and FBI HQ deliberately allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks that took place on 9/11, but the 9/11 Commission then covered over their criminal and nefarious deeds, even when they claimed to have had all of the same information that I have cited in this blog.

Why do you keep posting evidence-free wallpaper?

 

[paloalto]

Why do you keep posting evidence-free wallpaper?

All of this information comes from the DOJ IG report, the account of Ali Soufan, by Lawrence Wright in the July 10-17 issue of the New Yorker, the 9/11 Commission report, the CIA IG Executive summary, the Moussaoui trial documents, and other information found in Bob Woodward's book, "State of Denial", on the July 10, 2001 meeting at the White House, and Harpers January 2007 issue, on Richard Blee.

If you feel that any of this information is in error then please correct it and explain where you claim to have gotten your information.

I find that your question, with all due respect, "Why do you keep posting evidence-free wallpaper?", lacks any sort of detail.

 

[jimd3100]

Nice hack job on the posts in this thread.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237606

Come on Shure....be nice and do the jref pledge.....repeat after me.." I pledge Allegiance to Saudi Arabia, and the Oil under it's sands. And to it's Government, and the CIA...."

 

[dafydd]

All of this information comes from the DOJ IG report, the account of Ali Soufan, by Lawrence Wright in the July 10-17 issue of the New Yorker, the 9/11 Commission report, the CIA IG Executive summary, the Moussaoui trial documents, and other information found in Bob Woodward's book, "State of Denial", on the July 10, 2001 meeting at the White House, and Harpers January 2007 issue, on Richard Blee.

If you feel that any of this information is in error then please correct it and explain where you claim to have gotten your information.

I find that your question, with all due respect, "Why do you keep posting evidence-free wallpaper?", lacks any sort of detail.

Where can I read these reports?

 

[Robrob]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rules 0 and 12.

 

[dafydd]

I find that your question, with all due respect, "Why do you keep posting evidence-free wallpaper?", lacks any sort of detail.

I was simply responding in kind. Vague allegations are not details.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Where can I read these reports?

Which specific report do you have trouble locating? Maybe I could google that for you.

 

[dafydd]

Which specific report do you have trouble locating? Maybe I could google that for you.

Any one of them. There must be hundreds of them, judging by the screeds that paloalto posts.

 

[paloalto]

Where can I read these reports?

That is an excellent question. Almost every single one of these reports is available from the internet at no costs, with the exception of Bob Woodward’s book, State of Denial. But excepts from this book are available from the internet. I copied over the relevant section of Woodward’s book in one of my posts.

Just use Google to find the relevant document, these will be generally available in PDF, but you can use a PDF to Word translator to covert these to Word for easier access to the information in these reports.

I took all of this material and then aggregated it together to make one coherent account of the intelligence prior to that attacks on 9/11. It took several years of work since I started this in April 2004 and some of the information did not come our until mid-2006, the DOJ IG report in June 2006, the book State of Denial in October 2006, and even the Harpers article on January 2007.

I started with DOJ IG report, officially called “Office of Inspector General, Review of the FBI Handling of Intelligence Information Related to the September 11 Attacks( November 2004)” , Released publically in June 2006, (un-redacted) since this report by itself was the most complete. This report is about 400 pages long, but used aliases for the names of the people in their report. DE 952B (Alias Names) from the Moussaoui trial listed the translation from the alias names to the real names, with the exception of Margaret Gillespie, she is referred to in the DOJ IG report as Mary.

This report had been originally heavily redacted, meaning large amounts of this report were blacked out. But I was able to un-redact the original report released in November 2004 in just a couple of hours. It turned out that they had used several different redactors and some of the redactors were leaving things in this report that other redactors had taken out. Then I was able to fill in the holes in this DOJ IG report with the account of FBI Agent Ali Soufan by Lawrence Wright.

In effect I combined these two reports. These documents proved that Soufan had contacted the CIA on at least three occasions and asked about the information the CIA had on Walid bin Attash and if they had any information on a al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur. The CIA had all of this information, including the CIA Yemen Station, the CIA Pakistan Station and the CIA bin Laden unit, Alec Station, but criminally withheld not only this information from Soufan but even the fact that had this information. The DOJ IG report also confirmed that Tom Wilshire had Ali Soufan’s April request to the CIA even though he had been moved to the FBI ITOS unit, and instead of giving Soufan this information, Wilshire asked Corsi to set up a meeting with Soufan's own people, the FBI Cole bombing investigators in New York, on June 11, 2001. In this meeting Corsi presented the three photos Wilshire had gotten from the CIA of Mihdhar taken at Kuala Lumpur. At that point CIA Officer Clarke Shannon asked Bongardt and his team if the recognized any one in these photos. Since one photo only had Mihdhar and Hazmi in it, the two al Qaeda terrorists on AA 77 that hit the Pentagon it was clear that the CIA only wanted to know if Bongardt in his search for bin Attash, the mastermind of the Cole bombing, had uncovered the information that the CIA had been trying to keep secret, the fact that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting with bin Attash planning the Cole bombing

The DOJ IG report also confirmed that Corsi knew the CIA had the photo of Walid bin Attash by at least August 22, 2001, knew this connected both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the planning of the Cole bombing and knew it would be a crime to not pass this information to Bongardt and his team and also a crime to shut down any criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by Bongardt and his team. She and her supervisor, SSA Rod Middleton, did this anyway even knowing that they were committing major Federal felonies. This report also confirmed that FBI Agent Gillespie had found out from the INS on August 22, 2001 that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US on August 22, 201 and gave this information to FBI Deputy Chief of the ITOS unit and former CIA bin Laden Deputy Chief Tom Wilshire and FBI IOS HQ Agent Dina Corsi. This report confirmed that this information went back to the rest of the CIA on August 22, or August 23, 2001, including Blee, Black and Tenet, who already knew that Mihdhar and by association, Hazmi would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda operation.

The other documents added the following information, (highly summarized below):

The document “CIA requests changes to staff statement #10”, this connects the CIA Yemen station to the request of the photos on Mihdhar and bin Attash from the CIA bin Laden unit in late December 2000. The CIA Yemen station had requested these photos and then had the CIA/FBI joint source identify bin Attash from his Kuala Lumpur photo on January 4, 2001 and then in spite of the fact that Soufan had made an official FBI request for this same information from this CIA station, on November 2000, never gave this information to Soufan.

State of Denial, by Bob Woodward, described the meeting at the White House on July 10, 2001, between Tenet, Black, and Blee, and Rice Handily and Clarke about the fact a huge al Qaeda attack was just about to take place likely inside of the US.

The 9/11 Commission report, the information on the meeting between Corsi and NSLU attorney Sherry Sabol, that shows that Sabol told Corsi that Bongardt could take part in any investigation for Mihdhar.

The Moussaoui trial documents: Confirmed that CTC managers were told by Tom Wilshire on July 23, 2001, that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda attack, DE 939. Also described the fact that Corsi had denied FBI Agent Robert Fuller permission to contact Saudi Arabian Airlines to get Mihdhar’s credit card number when his investigation of Mihdhar has stalled on September 5, 2001 because he did not have this credit card number, DE 650. Also had translation of DOJ IG report alias names to the real names, DE 952b.

The CIA IG Executive Summary, places direct responsibility for the attacks on 9/11 squarely on Tenet, Gannon, Black and others at the CIA. Says that 50-60 people at the CIA knew about the travels of Mihdhar and Hazmi and never gave this information to the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing. The actual CIA IG report has never been released, it appears to prevent criminal prosecutions of CIA officers and managers.

Harpers January 2007, article by Ken Silverstein. Stated that Richard Blee was very close to Black and that Blee had not only been Chief of the CIA bin Laden unit but Chief of the CIA Rendition unit as well. This meant when the information on Khalid Sheikh Mohamed went to the CIA on June 12, 2001, to the Rendition unit, it would have gone very quickly to Black and then from Black to Tenet.

It was never my goal to slam any one agency or person but produce the most accurate account of 9/11 that I could. This effort took several years of effort. When I first embarked on this effort I thought I would just find that the CIA and FBI HQ were just incompetent, not that they had committed major crimes to allow the attacks on 9/11 to take place. I was primarily focused on the question, why after 19 months had the CIA, and later the FBI HQ not given the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi to the FBI Cole bombing investigators so they could find these al Qaeda terrorists before they had time to carry out a horrific attack inside of the US particularly when both the CIA and FBI knew that these terrorists were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would cause mass American causalities. This just did not make any sense. In effect, why were almost 3000 people murdered by the al Qaeda terrorists?

It was only after I started to assemble the whole picture of what had taken place at the CIA and FBI HQ that I was able to see the complete picture, a picture which made me almost physically sick to my stomach. This was not the picture that I had originally started out to find.

 

[twinstead]

Conspiracy theorists "connecting dots" and garnering knowledge that we mere mortals are too stupid to comprehend.

Never saw that coming.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Conspiracy theorists "connecting dots" and garnering knowledge that we mere mortals are too stupid to comprehend.

Never saw that coming.

There's a difference between original research and comprehending research. None of you is too stupid to look up the documents and check if their content is correctly represented by paloalto's posts. If you'd find errors, you could post them and show what a top debunker you are. Obviously you aren't willing to do that, so it goes round and round in circles of pantomime debunking.

 

[paloalto]

V

Conspiracy theorists "connecting dots" and garnering knowledge that we mere mortals are too stupid to comprehend.

Never saw that coming.

You now have a list of all of the documents I used to put the account of what had taken place prior to that attacks on 9/11, that had allowed these attacks to take place.

If you have found any errors that you think I made in this research effort, please point them out, if you can.

And at the same time maybe you can explain why when the CIA and FBI HQ knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US, and even knew that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in this attack, did they shut down all criminal investigations of these terrorists and in fact all al Qaeda terrorists found to be inside of the US, which included shutting down the criminal investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui.

The agents attempting to carry out the investigations of al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi told the FBI HQ agents that were shutting down their investigation, "why do you think that Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US, do you think they are going to ******* Disneyland?"

The agents that wanted to get a search warrant for Moussaoui’s duffle bag told the FBI HQ agents that were blocking their request for a FISA warrant, Maltbie and Frasca, that they though Moussaoui was likely a terrorist who wanted to get flight trying on a B747 in order to crash it into the World Trade Center Towers.

Even after these clear warnings by the criminal FBI agents that wanted these investigations to start or continue with search warrants, and even clear warnings that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack just about to take place inside of the US, FBI HQ agents still shut down and/or blocked the investigations of these terrorists.

EXPLAIN THIS IF YOU CAN!