JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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SpitfireIX said:
Conspiracists are forever attempting to apply the methods described in Yes, Minister for discrediting an unwelcome report:



:rolleyes:
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Meta-Dioxine is completely different to dioxines. Like Hitler is completely different to you Miss Hister...


Sorry, one of the best episodes.
 
Robrob said:
If I told you little green men shot JFK, would you also "consider" the possibility or would you dismiss it out of hand as nonsense?:rolleyes:



Translation: the evidence and facts used to debunk my well worn myth are suspect because they were in the original report.
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Well, at least he hasn't said they are all white washing liars because anybody who makes it look like true patriotic heroes like LHO were responsible HAS to be a whitewashing liar...
 
Tomtomkent said:
Well, at least he hasn't said they are all white washing liars because anybody who makes it look like true patriotic heroes like LHO were responsible HAS to be a whitewashing liar...
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That's a pathology I find interesting. Several times I've heard JFK CT proponents describe LHO as somehow "special." They will very strongly react to any description of LHO being a loser or crazy (regardless of what his life story would suggest).

I suppose it could it could be some kind of wish fulfillment, LHO must be "special" because he shot JFK, but the crux of their fantasy is LHO didn't shoot JFK.

Wouldn't it make more sense if the patsy was a crazed loser?
 
THE ASSASSINATION WAS NOT FIFTY YEARS AGO, DAMMIT! I was born Nov. 2, 1963 and I'm not fifty yet!
 
chris sutton said:
Deputy Constable Roger Craig's (and initially Seymour Weitzman's) insistence that a 7.65mm Mauser had been found on the 6th floor of the TSBD with '7.65 Mauser' stamped on the barrel. Weitzman later stated he was mistaken despite having owned a gunstore (which seems odd).
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Film of the rifle discovered in place in the TSBD as well as photographs taken within the TSBD as well as when the rifle was removed from the depository were studied by the HSCA [House Select Committee on Assassinations] photographic panel and were determined to show a Mannlicher Carcarno, not a Mauser. The HSCA photographic panel determined it was not just any MC, but Oswald's MC, to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world.

A Mauser and Carcano are easily confused at a glance.


Craig also stated that he saw a man leave the book depository and get picked up by a green Nash Rambler station waggon which left west along Elm street. He stated that the man was the same as the man arrested (Oswald) and in police custody. A photo taken just after the assassination shows a Nash Rambler on Elm street and two witnesses also saw it. This contradicts the movements of Oswald as determined by the Warren Commission.
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Most likely this man who left the TSBD (which Craig stated was about ten minutes after the assassination) was newsman Robert MacNeil (of the MacNeil - Lehrer PBS newscast), who did run into the TSBD shortly after the assassination to make a phone call to report on the shooting. He did state in his book The Right Place at the Right Time that after making the call he did flag down a passing motorist and hitch-hiked to Parkland Hospital. Oswald in custody said he took a bus and then, when the bus got stuck in traffic, took a cab to his roominghouse. The bus transfer Oswald obtained when he left the bus was found in his shirt pocket after the assassination. Assuming Craig was not mistaken means assuming Oswald lied and the bus transfer was planted or forged. I think that's an unreasonable position.

Let me know if you cannot find this information online and I will cite it for you.

Let me know if you have any questions about these items and whether we can move on to the remainder of your list or if you want to discuss these further.

Hank
 
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Wolrab said:
THE ASSASSINATION WAS NOT FIFTY YEARS AGO, DAMMIT! I was born Nov. 2, 1963 and I'm not fifty yet!
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That is precisely what "they" wish you to bleeve. Please post your Hawai'ian, thermite-free, grassy-knoll-stained birth certificate for skeptical verificationizing.
 
skepteen314 said:
Did anyone tackle the doctored x-rays angle?
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The HSCA Medical Panel examined the post-mortem x-rays of the late President and determined they were of JFK. Doctoring is a claim levelled by those who contrast the witness testimony (in some cases over three decades after the fact) with what the medical experts determine, and then say, "If the witnesses are correct, then the [insert hard evidence here] must have been doctored [or forged, or planted, etc.]"

They never consider the alternative, i.e., if the hard evidence is legitimate, then the witnesses must be mistaken. Why is that? Are humans infallible where they come from?

They never consider why the conspirators would bother, either. Wouldn't it make more sense to you to just shoot the President from behind with the weapon provably ordered by the "Lone Nut Patsy", rather than to shoot the President from multiple locations with multiple weapons, none of which are the Lone Nut's, and then have to spirit away the real weapons and plant the fake one, and then also alter the x-rays, the autopsy photos, the Zapuder film, and other films taken in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting?

Hank
 
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HSienzant said:
They never consider why the conspirators would bother, either. Wouldn't it make more sense to you to just shoot the President from behind with the weapon provably ordered by the "Lone Nut Patsy", rather than to shoot the President from multiple locations with multiple weapons, none of which are the Lone Nut's, and then have to spirit away the real weapons and plant the fake one, and then also alter the x-rays, the autopsy photos, the Zapuder film, and other films taken in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting?
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Or, even better, why not just arrange for a few pants-down photos of JFK with his mistress du jour to be taken and leaked to the press, forcing him to resign in disgrace?
 
SpitfireIX said:
HSienzant said:
They never consider why the conspirators would bother, either. Wouldn't it make more sense to you to just shoot the President from behind with the weapon provably ordered by the "Lone Nut Patsy", rather than to shoot the President from multiple locations with multiple weapons, none of which are the Lone Nut's, and then have to spirit away the real weapons and plant the fake one, and then also alter the x-rays, the autopsy photos, the Zapuder film, and other films taken in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting?
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Or, even better, why not just arrange for a few pants-down photos of JFK with his mistress du jour to be taken and leaked to the press, forcing him to resign in disgrace?
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All part of my Grand Unified Theory of conspiracies. When pinned, no CT will ever explain how the conspiracy was accomplished (or why) to a level better than a five year old could have planned.
 
HSienzant said:
Film of the rifle discovered in place in the TSBD as well as photographs taken within the TSBD as well as when the rifle was removed from the depository were studied by the HSCA [House Select Committee on Assassinations] photographic panel and were determined to show a Mannlicher Carcarno, not a Mauser. The HSCA photographic panel determined it was not just any MC, but Oswald's MC, to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world.

A Mauser and Carcano are easily confused at a glance.


Hank
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Nonsense. Even non-expert could hardly confuse the words imprinted on the alleged Carcano "Made Italy, 6.5" with "7.65 Mauser."

And,,,'

"An FBI envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122) dated 12/2/1963 that was released in 1995 by the AssassinationsRecord Review Board ARRB had a cover that detailed the contents of the envelope as being a 7.65 mm rifle shell. The shell was allegedly found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting, though nothing was known about this envelope or rifle shell until the release of the 1995 records. The whereabouts of the 7.65 mm rifle shell is unknown. Researcher Anna Marie Kuhns-Walko first reported the envelope. The envelope had the following label: "7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/1963 ... determined of no value and destroyed."

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/11th_Issue/guns_dp.html
 
Robert Prey said:
Nonsense. Even non-expert could hardly confuse the words imprinted on the alleged Carcano "Made Italy, 6.5" with "7.65 Mauser."

And,,,'

"An FBI envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122) dated 12/2/1963 that was released in 1995 by the AssassinationsRecord Review Board ARRB had a cover that detailed the contents of the envelope as being a 7.65 mm rifle shell. The shell was allegedly found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting, though nothing was known about this envelope or rifle shell until the release of the 1995 records. The whereabouts of the 7.65 mm rifle shell is unknown. Researcher Anna Marie Kuhns-Walko first reported the envelope. The envelope had the following label: "7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/1963 ... determined of no value and destroyed."

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/11th_Issue/guns_dp.html
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So nobody could mistake the writing on the side... of a shell for which you have no evidence and nothing was known about, and of unknown location...


So basically it could have been a misidentification. Exactly as you claim to be nonsense.
 
Popular fiction aside, not every LEO is firearms savvy.

I know officers (in this day and age) whose general firearms knowledge pretty much ends with the difference between semi-auto handguns and revolvers. They can identify a Glock because it's their issue pistol, but that's pretty much it.

I have no doubt 1963 wasn't any different.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Is your claim that it would be impossible to mistake one rifle for another?
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I think his point, if I follow correctly, that the LEO read "Mauser" and the caliber on the rifle itself and wasn't just identifying by shape. I have a Mauser. The only place it says Mauser and the caliber is where the company that imported it into the US etched it onto the barrel...probably some time in the 90s or 2000s. And I've handled quite a few Mausers and don't recall ever seeing Mauser and the caliber written directly onto the rifle before...but to be honest I mostly pay attention to rifle condition and markings from the country of origin.

I don't know if doing the etching thing was common practice in the 60s though.
 
I am Bigfoot said:
I think his point, if I follow correctly, that the LEO read "Mauser" and the caliber on the rifle itself and wasn't just identifying by shape.
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He would need to establish that the person who said it was a Mauser had first read every marking on the rifle before drawing the conclusion that it was a Mauser. At first glance, it does look like a Mauser. Pictures of a Mauser and a MC were posted earlier in the thread to show the similarities. See post #52. That discussion was apparently not understood by Robert.
 
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