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Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

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It appears that the judge not only agreed with me on the passport issue but took it one step further.

That or CNN is making things up:

A Florida judge on Thursday set a $1 million bond with new restrictions on George Zimmerman, saying he believes the suspect may have been planning to flee the country to avoid prosecution in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

In his ruling, Lester wrote about the first bond hearing and noted an undisclosed second passport kept in Zimmerman's safe deposit box.

"It is entirely reasonable for this court to find that, but for the requirement that he be placed on electronic monitoring, the defendant and his wife would have fled the United States with at least $130,000 of other people's money."
Click to expand...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html


After all those repeated claims of the judge having laughed the paypal issue out of court, while I tried to actually detail the facts:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8340285t#post8340285

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8343954t#post8343954

Those are links to my posts. It would seem almost mean to link to some of the posts that criticized me.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
$1,000,000 bond. Since the judge knows GZ has >> 100k in 'found money', he feels that bail is reasonable.

So, we conclude it was not terribly important for GZ to testify ?
Click to expand...

I'd conclude the opposite.

Zimmerman didn't explain himself, the judge noted that in his order, and subsequently set a very high bond that O'Mara states Zimmerman is unlikely to be able to post.

Looks like negative consequences to me.

Other things to note in the judge's order:

He made mention of the passport issue in his criticism of Zimmerman's deception. I guess he didn't laugh it out of court after all.

He still maintains the case against Zimmerman is strong.
 
johnny karate said:
I'd conclude the opposite.

Zimmerman didn't explain himself, the judge noted that in his order, and subsequently set a very high bond that O'Mara states Zimmerman is unlikely to be able to post.

Looks like negative consequences to me.

Other things to note in the judge's order:

He made mention of the passport issue in his criticism of Zimmerman's deception. I guess he didn't laugh it out of court after all.

He still maintains the case against Zimmerman is strong.
Click to expand...

I don't think JKL misses a trick. He wanted to hear from GZ, he didn't. Hiding money. The little bit of BS with the passports. Nope, didn't miss a thing.

I kinda feel sorry for O'Mara at this point. He's got every defense attorney's worst nightmare. No wonder he asked for help.
 
Can someone clarify, GZ needs to come up with 10% but doesn't he somehow need to guarantee the full 1M with collateral?
 
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I just reread the ruling and I'm going to reverse myself. I expected the judge to be harsh on the issue of GZ having deceived the court, but he does seem to have gone out of his way to have been harsh. His statement that it is reasonable for the court to conclude that if it had not been for electronic monitoring that they would have fled the country with "other peoples money" is one example.

Yet still at the end of the day, he gave bond (though a high one).
 
KatieG said:
...

I kinda feel sorry for O'Mara at this point. He's got every defense attorney's worst nightmare. No wonder he asked for help.
Click to expand...

I don't.


O'Mara sure does get right to the heart of things in begging for money... straight through the heart.

Zimmerman Attorney Seeks Donations From People Who Also Would Have Shot Trayvon Martin

In a posting to his website after the new bond was announced, Zimmerman attorney Mark O’Mara sought more donations from people who also would have shot and killed Trayvon Martin
Click to expand...
 
crimresearch said:
If he wants out, it will be 100K... That isn't even half of what he should have in his defense fund.

How are all of these mundane, routine processes that hundreds of thousands of defendants go through every year in America, all predictors of doom and disaster in Zimmerman's case?
Click to expand...


Which is routine and mundane for hundreds of thousands of Americans every year ... the $1,000,000 bail, or the $200,000+ slush fund of found money?
 
johnny karate said:
I'd conclude the opposite.

Zimmerman didn't explain himself, the judge noted that in his order, and subsequently set a very high bond that O'Mara states Zimmerman is unlikely to be able to post.
Click to expand...

Lester made it clear that the amount he set bail for has to do with the fact that GZ is using 'other peoples money'. Not with the fact he didn't testify.

He stated "...court finds that bail should be set at $1,000,000. The defendant has the ability to post such bail. The increased bail is not punishment."

Are we reading the same order ?

johnny karate said:
Looks like negative consequences to me.
Click to expand...

But not based on him not testifying, which was the point in question. Which was why I went out of my way to ask what would him in this exact scenario, if bail was granted, but in a higher amount.

johnny karate said:
Other things to note in the judge's order:

He made mention of the passport issue in his criticism of Zimmerman's deception. I guess he didn't laugh it out of court after all.

He still maintains the case against Zimmerman is strong.
Click to expand...

Where does he maintain this ? I must have missed it.
 
Again we have a situation where the media puts some actual words in quotation marks :

"...and the state failed to prove that the defendant may be held without bond,",
and attaches them to claims that the same person 'meant' something that isn't contained in the quoted words - 'planning to flee the country to avoid prosecution'... but asks us to trust them to give us the context.

Trouble with blindly trusting the media, is their own track record on credibility.

Citing what the media sensationalizes, and actually trusting it have been proven to be 2 different things time and time again in this case (not to mention many others).
The 'breaking news' reports of Trayvon Martin's 911 call, hollow point bullets, gang membership, magic software analysis, so on have fallen apart under scrutiny.

Here's the actual judge, speaking for himself in his actual words in the earlier hearing... which matches the reality of granting a new bond in a reasonable amount, far more than recent claims here about 'non-bondable offense', '3rd degree felony perjury conviction' 'O'mara lying to the judge, 'Zimmerman ran away from the police after the shooting', etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S85WMM_cKpg&feature=youtu.be
 
OnlyTellsTruths said:
It appears that the judge not only agreed with me on the passport issue but took it one step further.

That or CNN is making things up:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
"It is entirely reasonable for this court to find that, but for the requirement that he be placed on electronic monitoring, the defendant and his wife would have fled the United States with at least $130,000 of other people's money."
Click to expand...

I don't know how the judge could possibly know that GZ was going to flee except for the fact he was monitored.... Maybe Judge Lester should apply for the $1,000,000 ?

OnlyTellsTruths said:
After all those repeated claims of the judge having laughed the paypal issue out of court, while I tried to actually detail the facts:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8340285t#post8340285
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8343954t#post8343954

Those are links to my posts. It would seem almost mean to link to some of the posts that criticized me.
Click to expand...

You mean passport issue, not paypal issue, yes ?

I don't get it. I can't reconcile the fact that GZ voluntarily turned in a passport, yet judge Lester claims he was getting ready to flee the country.

Somehow the fact that he gave numerous statements, passed a stress test, gave phone records, gave scream sample, gave buccal swabs ... all of that apparently counts for nothing ?
 
Natural Born Skeptic said:
Can someone clarify, GZ needs to come up with 10% but doesn't he somehow need to guarantee the full 1M with collateral?
Click to expand...

Usually a bondsman will require some collateral of some sort. If he is on good terms with the bondsman, they may offer a partial collateral bond, and the full 10%, plus maybe a small fee.

Just depends on the bondsman. They are not required by law to accept a no collateral bond, nor are they required to have collateral.
 
I don't think GZ can post that bail, and it's probably best not to anyway. It's too high and the prosecutor has a way to keep GZ in jail anyway even if he could make bail.

The judge pretty much suggested it.

I would sit tight and appeal the bond and start planning a plea deal.

GZ is toast in that system, imo.
 
johnny karate said:
I'd conclude the opposite.

Zimmerman didn't explain himself, the judge noted that in his order, and subsequently set a very high bond that O'Mara states Zimmerman is unlikely to be able to post.

Looks like negative consequences to me.

Other things to note in the judge's order:

He made mention of the passport issue in his criticism of Zimmerman's deception. I guess he didn't laugh it out of court after all.

He still maintains the case against Zimmerman is strong.
Click to expand...

Early in this case I suggested that George's credibility would be the key to the prosecution's case, and some people thought that merely trying to make him look bad was hardly sufficient to support a murder charge. But now that we have some details, we can see that witnesses aren't going to support George nearly as much as it seemed at first blush. They didn't see key parts of the event. They didn't see how it started, and they didn't see how it ended. They saw some parts in the middle and they saw after it was over.

The only thing George has is the injuries and his word. Now, we can reasonably conclude that George is a liar, and in the opinion of the judge, a manipulator who knows the system, studied criminal justice, and attempts to work the system wherever the opportunity presents itself. Would such a man know the elements of a self-defense case and tailor his story to fit? Of course he would.

We know that based on George's story, the injuries that otherwise might support his self-defense claim don't match his story. The location of the body doesn't match his story. The NEN call doesn't match his story. The assertion that an otherwise non-violent kid would turn psycho with zero provocation and that George, who outweighed him by nearly 50 pounds, was easily and mercilessly beaten until he was forced to shoot, just starts out as ridiculous. But add in the fact that you have to take the word of a known liar in order to believe it?

In short, his credibility will be key to the case. I was right.

And now, reading this order by JKL, does anything honestly believe George will walk out of there a free man from a SYG hearing?

I think there's no chance at all of him putting himself up on the stand and subjecting himself to cross examination, if the judge thinks he's a big fat liar before he even takes the oath.

______________


Since it takes so long to get a post approved, I'll address one other thought.

Jeralyn assets that this was a good day for George, a bad day for O'Mara, and a bad day for the prosecutors, since George won't go to trial for three years. That's an incredible thing, if true. That he could roam free for that long and no trial would take place? But during this time, wouldn't he be wearing an ankle bracelet? For three years? And the order says he can't leave Seminole County. Can't open or maintain a bank account. So during this time, he won't be able to hold a job, I guess? If he really has to subsist on his Paypal scam, then realistically, how long could that last? Will people continue to hand the guy money, even six months from now, if there is no trial and no news? Somehow, I don't think this is a win for him at all. But I also don't think this will be a three year wait for a trial. I think the forces are there to get this going.

But does anyone agree that he would face trial in 2014 or 2015? That sounds just incredible to me.
 
OnlyTellsTruths said:
A Florida judge on Thursday set a $1 million bond with new restrictions on George Zimmerman, saying he believes the suspect may have been planning to flee the country to avoid prosecution in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

In his ruling, Lester wrote about the first bond hearing and noted an undisclosed second passport kept in Zimmerman's safe deposit box.

"It is entirely reasonable for this court to find that, but for the requirement that he be placed on electronic monitoring, the defendant and his wife would have fled the United States with at least $130,000 of other people's money."
Click to expand...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
Click to expand...

Apparently the judge was even more blunt about it than that:

"This court finds that circumstances indicate that the defendant was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution, but such plans were thwarted," Lester wrote.
Click to expand...

"It appears that the Defendant also requests that this Court assume that there are no undisclosed sources of income or money with which the Defendant could abscond if released again."
Click to expand...

The increased bail [of $1,000,000] is not a punishment; it is meant to allay this Court's concern that the Defendant intended to flee the jurisdiction and a lesser amount would not ensure his presence in court."
Click to expand...

I predict that the only alternative from this point on for some die-hard Z defenders will be a full on attack on the judge. He will be literally equated with the prosecution.

---------------

I just spent nearly 20 minutes attempting to quote parts of the bail order and it is impossible to decide what to include within the MA rule of quoting too much.

It's just sentence after sentence of points, many of which have been criticized by certain people in this very thread. And it goes on like that for the first few pages.

I suggest everyone read it who hasn't.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/SKMBT_363-V12070510360.pdf

The Judge basically says (near the transition from page 4 to 5 I believe) that he does not want to grant bond, but he has to because the Prosecution failed meet a few key thresholds. He also seems to hint that he thinks those thresholds could have been met!

-------------------


Does anyone know if some of these conditions are abnormal, a few seem harsh.

1. The Defendant's bail shall be set at $1,000,000 with the following conditions:

a. The Defendant shall refrain from criminal activity of any kind

b. The Defendant shall not have any contact with the victim's family, directly or indirectly, except as necessary to conduct pretrial discover through his attorneys

c. The Defendant shall be subject to electronic monitoring at his own expense

d. The Defendant shall not leave Seminole County without prior authorization by this Court

e. The Defendant shall check in with the Pre-trial Release Department every 48 hours

f. The Defendant shall not enter the property of the Orlando-Sanford International Airport

g. The Defendant shall not open or maintain a bank account

h. The Defendant shall not consume any alcohol

i. The Defendant shall obey a curfew between 6:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m.

j. The Defendant shall not apply for or obtain a passport
Click to expand...

I can only assume that G means (by maintain) that current accounts in his name must be closed.

I'm not sure how in the world they would regulate H.
 
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