General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Mr Moore forgot to mention what became of defendant Werner Braune, so I will help him out: Braune received a death sentence for his guilt in the Einsatzgruppen murders. He was executed, by hanging, 7 June 1951. Like Ott, Braune filed a clemency petition - in which he admitted his murders but argued that the court had ignored his inner moral objections to them (the court hadn't - it had found he made no effort to evade the orders). Lying through his teeth, Braune also claimed that evading a Hitler order would have brought certain death. The defendants' individual circumstances differing, High Commissioner McCloy denied Braune's petition, and Braune was hanged for mass murder.

And remember Ott's parole had not to do with the facts of the case and the judgment of his guilt. Is this what you meant to point out, Mr Moore?
 
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LemmyCaution said:
Really? If someone says they killed me, and then I show up alive, that wouldn't show that the killing of me didn't happen?
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You're right. I stand corrected. That would be proof that the killing didn't happen. As long as you don't have a twin, have never been cloned and were not born in a barn to a Jewish virgin.
 
Dogzilla said:
I would not call them "imaginary Jews" per se. But my answer to "where did they go?" is the same answer Team holocaust gives when I ask where did the 2.9 million victims go when Auschwitz lowered the death toll from 4 million to 1.1 million or so?
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Ah, equivocation. The tool of the creationist. It's so refreshing to see this used again, here.
 
Twins? Mistaken identity? Comedies of errors?

Oh come on. You're not writing a comic novel or a play. You're dealing with history.

Which is as far removed from an over cooked unoriginal little comic fantasy as can be got Dogzilla.
 
Dogzilla said:
You're right. I stand corrected. That would be proof that the killing didn't happen. As long as you don't have a twin, have never been cloned and were not born in a barn to a Jewish virgin.
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I don't, I haven't been, and no one ever was. So, yes, you were wrong, as is so often the case with your glib remarks.
 
Dogzilla said:
You seem frustrated.
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Sorry, it's a muscle spasm caused by my allergy to falsehoods. Could you try posting truth, from now on ? I'm asking you to do this as an act of compassion.

I guess it is self-evident to you that missing Jews must've been killed and you can't understand why somebody can't understand that.
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Actually, no. It's not self-evident. It's a reasonable conclusion, and I'm trying to see if you have the intellectual honesty to admit that. But you are so ideologically set against the reality of the holocaust that you deny even the possibility.

Your frustration is certainly justifiable if it is true that after the war we would know where every Jew who survived could be located and if they could not be located
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I understand that fighting men made of straw is easier but you must be getting tired of winning against them, by now. How about you try the real deal, instead ?

We're not talking about finding every single jew. We're talking about SIX MILLION missing PEOPLE. We know they existed before the war, and they were nowhere to be found after. I'm not looking for an exact count, but could you at least tell me of a reasonable alternative to their death at the hands of the only people who had them under their noses all this time ?

So do you believe that the only two possible fates for the Jews of Europe are 1) survive the war and able to be located or 2) murdered by the Nazis as part of their plan to exterminate all the Jews? Yes or No?
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That's not what I said, so no.
 
Dogzilla said:
I assume you're asking where they went if they weren't killed by the Nazis for a reason. As I've said, I don't know where they went. I don't know where any individual Jew went after the war. So what? If you have a point to make, make it.
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Well how hard could it be? Unless you're suggesting that in addition to never contacting anyone they knew they also chose not to file lawsuits for lost property, failed to find jobs that paid taxes and thus never claimed any pensions or social security type benefits, then there should be a wealth of documentation. Surely one of your denier friends has researched such matters and found at least some of those six million?
 
Dogzilla said:
...I'm not going to comment on something I haven't read.
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This explains so much. Specifically, why you refuse to read the Jager Report, yet keep implying things about it via disingenuous questions.

I'm not going to assume that a one sentence summary of an idea that might be in the book is an accurate summary and respond to that. I'm not going to avoid answering a question by demanding ridiculous levels of proof that cannot be met
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Liar. You have done precisely that several times.

nor am I going to simply disagree with whatever you're saying.
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Double liar. You feel no hesitation in questioning just about every point debunkers make, while you never exhibit the same level of skepticism towards other deniers.

That said, why do I think Hitler had to authorize exemptions? Probably because Hitler's Zionist overlords told him that if he didn't, they would kill Eva Braun and her little dog, Toto. That's about as serious an answer you're going to get out of me.
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Let the record show that Dogzilla absolutely refuses to answer the question.

...Your turn: how is any of this evidence that there were hundreds of thousands of bodies buried at the AR camps?
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Why should anyone answer the question, when you've just admitted you won't take summaries? Let me see if I understand your logic;

1. Don't look for information on Holocaust.
2. Ask questions about Holocaust.
3. When those questions are answered, reject or question the answers because they're in sources you haven't seen because you chose not to.
4. "Simplify" your opponents arguments into what are totally not straw men.
4b. When your opponents say you've oversimplied their arguments, complain that they refuse to give a straight answer.
5. ???
5. Profit!

You've been repeatedly directed to information about the Holocaust, and keep asking questions which could be refuted with a few seconds of searching. The Jager report is literally only a few pages long, yet you still haven't read it. The only reasonable conclusion is that you don't actually want the answers to your questions, you're just trying to keep the ball in the air.
 
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LemmyCaution said:
There was no mass extermination of Europe's Jews, and the by-and-large Communist-affiliated Jews deserved it.
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There was no mass extermination of Europe's Jews, and the by-and-large Communist-affiliated Jews deserved it.FTFY
I guess it's time to remind the Holocaustics that the reason Jewish people were being sent to concentration camps was their Communist affiliations.
 
000063 said:
Weird. No complaints about people ignoring HDV? That's what you normally do at this point.

And, of course, no evidence of such. If they were being sent to camps for being communist, why doesn't the Jager report list them as "Communists"?

There are significant differences between the Japanese internment camps and the Nazi concentration camps. Most obviously, America did not kill Japanese in those camps on an industrial scale. However, no one with any sense denies that it is a shameful chapter in American history, just like no one with any sense seeks to excuse, downplay, and deny the actions of the Germans.
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There is no substantial evidence that we didn't exterminate the Japanese. However, we have photographs of Japanese on cattle cars. We have pictures of camps where the Japanese were held. We have pictures of Japanese standing in lines. We have pictures of them standing behind barbed wire and guarded by gun towers. We have pictures of little old ladies walking with children. We have government documents proving that the Japanese were rounded up. We have every form of mass media spewing anti-Japanese propaganda during the war. The Nazis called the Jews "Jews." We called the Japanese "Japs" or "Nips." We have exterminationist rhetoric regarding the Japanese appearing in print throughout the war. We know American GIs would give the severed heads of the Japanese to their girlfriends as presents--and the girls loved it! fercryinoutloud!!

But smoking gun proof of our policy to exterminate the Japanese is: if they weren't exterminated, where did they go? We know where Japanese were living before the war. They weren't there after the war. Maybe some of them were but the survival of a few doesn't mean there was no policy to kill them all. So where are they??

This is an old discussion. Don't embarrass yourself by going down this road again.
 
Clayton Moore said:
There was no mass extermination of Europe's Jews, and the by-and-large Communist-affiliated Jews deserved it.FTFY
I guess it's time to remind the Holocaustics that the reason Jewish people were being sent to concentration camps was their Communist affiliations.
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Prove it.

I guess it's time to remind you that Hitler granted exemptions to certain Jews, as the very page you linked to and text you quoted clearly states.
 
Clayton Moore said:
There was no mass extermination of Europe's Jews, and the by-and-large Communist-affiliated Jews deserved it.FTFY
I guess it's time to remind the Holocaustics that the reason Jewish people were being sent to concentration camps was their Communist affiliations.
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And I really like it when deniers of a certain persuasion repeat their channeling of Nazi lies.

In fact, in 1933 the Jews in Germany were sent to the earliest concentration camps on account of their presumed and actual political activity, usually KPD or SPD. But this pattern didn't last, and certainly after Kristallnacht, when 28,000 Jewish men were rounded up in the savage anti-Jewish riots sponsored by the Nazis - and sent to Dachau, Buchenwald, and Sachsenhausen - the selection principle had nothing to do with political connections or activity. Nothing whatsoever. The selection criterion was "Jewish." And that was a principle that operated thereafter, in the Reich and in occupied countries. The Nazis went so far as to round up Jews, utterly unconnected to anti-German actions, and kill them in reprisals for the oppositional actions carried out by others.
 
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Dogzilla said:
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But smoking gun proof of our policy to exterminate the Japanese is: if they weren't exterminated, where did they go? We know where Japanese were living before the war. They weren't there after the war. Maybe some of them were but the survival of a few doesn't mean there was no policy to kill them all. So where are they??

This is an old discussion. Don't embarrass yourself by going down this road again.
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Please stop trying to divert the thread away from the subject of these alleged communist ties which Moore has not provided evidence for. This is another example of your double standards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#Internment_ends

So, where are were the Jews suing for their stuff back? Germany was paying reparations after the war. If you want to draw equivalences, let's go all the way. When did the Jews bomb a major German military base unprovoked, without a declaration of war? Was Germany at war with the Jews?
 
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LemmyCaution said:
And I really like it when deniers of a certain persuasion repeat their channeling of Nazi lies.

In fact, in 1933 the Jews in 1933 sent to the earliest concentration camps were sent there on account of their presumed and actual political activity, usually KPD or SPD. But this pattern didn't last, and certainly after Kristallnacht, when 28,000 Jewish men were rounded up in the savage anti-Jewish riots sponsored by the Nazis - and sent to Dachau, Buchenwald, and Sachsenhausen - the selection principle had nothing to do with political connections or activity. Nothing whatsoever. The selection criterion was "Jewish." And that was a principle that operated thereafter, in the Reich and in occupied countries. The Nazis went so far as to round up Jews, utterly unconnected to anti-German actions, and kill them in reprisals for the oppositional actions carried out by others.
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What's that called? Blaming members of a group because other members of a group did something wrong? Tip of my tongue, starts with P...
 
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