General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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ANTPogo said:
So, Dogzilla's argument is that the reason neither he nor any other denier has been able to find out what happened to the Jews of Europe if they weren't murdered by the Nazis is because they never existed in the first place?!

That's certainly taking denial to a whole new level.
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No, Clay made the same argument a few pages back.

He was laughed at much harder, of course.

It's hardly worth noting that neither of them presented any actual evidence that the vanishing Jews were falsified. Amazing how Doggie advanced from "I don't know" to "I know! They never existed!" over the course of one day.

He's still ignoring the fact that literally not a single debunker has ever agreed with or proposed Option 1 in his false binary.
 
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000063 said:
No, Clay made the same argument a few pages back.

He was laughed at much harder, of course.

It's hardly worth noting that neither of them presented any actual evidence that the vanishing Jews were falsified. Amazing how Doggie advanced from "I don't know" to "I know! They never existed!" over the course of one day.

He's still ignoring the fact that literally not a single debunker has ever agreed with or proposed Option 1 in his false binary.
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Its absoulute insanity
 
000063 said:
No, Clay made the same argument a few pages back.

He was laughed at much harder, of course.

It's hardly worth noting that neither of them presented any actual evidence that the vanishing Jews were falsified. Amazing how Doggie advanced from "I don't know" to "I know! They never existed!" over the course of one day.

He's still ignoring the fact that literally not a single debunker has ever agreed with or proposed Option 1 in his false binary.
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Indeed, Mr Moore did. Except that I wonder if Mr Moore, who has only positive thoughts for all things Nazi, especially Nazi organizational and logistical talents, will be happy to think that this means that his heroes - their estimates of the numbers of Jews in Europe and in occupied cities and ghettos, according to this denier thesis, wildly erroneous - couldn't even count. Now, I am less sanguine than Mr Moore regarding Nazi talents, but even I believe that the Nazis had mastered counting.

The line of denier argument the past day in this thread has plumbed new depths of stupid. It would be hilarious if . . . hell, it is hilarious.
 
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Moss said:
Is this going to be the "the Nazis either wanted to kill all Jews or they wanted to kill none at all" false dichotomy again?
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This is the argument that time and space don't matter - that all Jews had to be killed everywhere at once or there was no extermination policy - and also that the world is black and white, with the result that there were no Mischlinge or Jews in mixed marriages or Jews temporarily useful - and, besides which, there has never been a policy anywhere ever that had any exceptions whatsoever. That argument.
 
Belz... said:
And let's replace a false dichotomy by a strawman. If you're not going to debate honestly, why bother ?

Oh, so where did those 6 million Jews go ?
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I assume you're asking where they went if they weren't killed by the Nazis for a reason. As I've said, I don't know where they went. I don't know where any individual Jew went after the war. So what? If you have a point to make, make it.
 
000063 said:
I mean, he specifically mentioned how numbers keep getting lowered. It should be easy to find someone who was thought to be dead, right?
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You would think so. If you're still missing any Jews, have you tried looking wherever it is that they found the 2.5 million Auschwitz victims in 1990? There might've been some Jews among them.
 
Dogzilla said:
I assume you're asking where they went if they weren't killed by the Nazis for a reason. As I've said, I don't know where they went. I don't know where any individual Jew went after the war. So what? If you have a point to make, make it.
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Well, tracking down 6 million survivors and/or their relatives would be a start to disprove the Holocaust.
 
Dogzilla said:
You would think so. If you're still missing any Jews, have you tried looking wherever it is that they found the 2.5 million Auschwitz victims in 1990? There might've been some Jews among them.
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So that's your whole argument? The Soviets used a blatantly false estimate that no real historian took seriously when they constructed the Auschwitz memorial, therefore none of the 6 million victims existed?
 
Is Dogzilla sitting on an absolute goldmine for Revisionism? Waybills, bystander accounts? Hell, any of the kind of stuff that detail hundreds of trains packed to the gills with happy freshly clothed Jews. Steaming away from Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka transit camps? Though "steaming" is the operative word when I think of Dz and his recent posts. Also,

"pile of"

Dog wouldn't tell what he thought of the commander of Einsatzkommando 3. Karl Jaeger's human bean counting ledger then?
 
Cyrix686 said:
Is Dogzilla sitting on an absolute goldmine for Revisionism? Waybills, bystander accounts? Hell, any of the kind of stuff that detail hundreds of trains packed to the gills with happy freshly clothed Jews. Steaming away from Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka transit camps? Though "steaming" is the operative word when I think of Dz and his recent posts. Also,

"pile of"

Dog wouldn't tell what he thought of the commander of Einsatzkommando 3. Karl Jaeger's human bean counting ledger then?
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Dogzilla has been edging steadily closer to CM's "None of the 6 million supposed victims even existed in the first place" steaming pile. I have to hand it to the deniers, it's the best argument they've got - there's more evidence for them not having existed than for any other denier theory to date. Of course, that's a fairly low bar to begin with.
 
Carrying out special tasks you mean? Murdering 130,000 people because they were Jews.

But now according to DZ they never existed in the first place,

Is that reasonable point to make, the thedopefishlives?
 
Cyrix686 said:
Carrying out special tasks you mean? Murdering 130,000 people because they were Jews.

But now according to DZ they never existed in the first place,

Is that reasonable point to make, the thedopefishlives?
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I never said it was reasonable. I said they had more evidence than for any other of their crackpot theories. Namely, it explains why the 6 million weren't there when the war ended. That's literally the only improvement - it doesn't even begin to fit any of the rest of the data.
 
Cyrix686 said:
Carrying out special tasks you mean? Murdering 130,000 people because they were Jews.

But now according to DZ they never existed in the first place,
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Jaeger only thought he was shooting them. Jaeger only thought they were Jews. Jaeger thought that the people he described thus "August 29, 41 - Utena and Moletai - 582 Jews, 1,731 Jewesses, 1,469 Jewish children - 3,782" or "Sep. 12, 41 - City of Wilna - 993 Jews, 1670 Jewesses, 771 J child. - 3,334" were actually partisans. Jaeger thought it was a resettlement operation and never saw anyone get shot unless they were Soviet soldiers. Jaeger thought it was collateral damage (which didn't kill Jews because they didn't exist in the first place) or cross fire (which . . . you know . . . ) or natural causes. Jaeger was hallucinating. Jaeger didn't kill 6 million Jews, so he didn't kill any Jews. Besides Jaeger never used a gas chamber, so there was no Holocaust.
 
I wonder if Dogzilla thinks this new theory of his is just as respectful of and complimentary to the Jews as his previous one.

"Good news, everyone! Your relatives weren't brutally murdered by the Nazis after all! They actually never existed in the first place!"
 
Thedopefishlives:
I never said it was reasonable. I said they had more evidence than for any other of their crackpot theories. Namely, it explains why the 6 million weren't there when the war ended. That's literally the only improvement - it doesn't even begin to fit any of the rest of the data.
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Oh I know you didn't, his whole argument is unreasonable throughout.It's not yours is it? It's the logical progression of revisionist ridiculousness. But I was trying to understand if Karl's human bean counting now according to Dz is a complete fiction.

Now I can't recall him making the claim that the Jager Report document is forged, I switched off tbh when he started raving about the magic cave earlier in that slightly excitable way he has and repeating he didn't know. And before then he was demanding to subtract some human beings from some other human beings.

But now I see according to the latest magically disappearing Jews of Revisionism theories a whole spectacle of hitherto unsuspected idiotic vistas stretching away. Like for example:

I suppose with no Jews then, there was never a Judenfrage in the first place because er, there were no Jews. Then.

Hmm I think unless something more substantive emerges from this I'm just going to go somewhere else for a while because DZ is trying to do a Clayton here and there is only so much of that I can take.
 
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Cyrix686 said:
I suppose with no Jews then, there was never a Judenfrage in the first place because er, there were no Jews. Then.
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What a crazy world: the Reich, the G-G, the Ostland, Ukraine, occupied France, Hungary . . . the Netherlands . . . all of Europe was judenrein to begin with. What the heck was all the fuss, then?
 
Cyrix686 said:
Is Dogzilla sitting on an absolute goldmine for Revisionism? Waybills, bystander accounts? Hell, any of the kind of stuff that detail hundreds of trains packed to the gills with happy freshly clothed Jews. Steaming away from Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka transit camps? Though "steaming" is the operative word when I think of Dz and his recent posts. Also,

"pile of"
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Not to mention the physical evidence, and who knows how much testimony from survivors and Nazis alike.

Dog wouldn't tell what he thought of the commander of Einsatzkommando 3. Karl Jaeger's human bean counting ledger then?
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You're expecting him to read it, which he has shown no indication of planning to do. All he can do is fish for information in the report, and then act like he's proved something when people don't give him the information he should have already if he'd read it.

Sophists amuse and interest me, and I can't help but wonder how Doggie is going to try and claw his way off the subject.

Cyrix686 said:
Thedopefishlives:


Oh I know you didn't, his whole argument is unreasonable throughout.It's not yours is it? It's the logical progression of revisionist ridiculousness. But I was trying to understand if Karl's human bean counting now according to Dz is a complete fiction.

Now I can't recall him making the claim that the Jager Report document is forged, I switched off tbh when he started raving about the magic cave earlier in that slightly excitable way he has and repeating he didn't know. And before then he was demanding to subtract some human beings from some other human beings.
...
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I don't think he's actually made any assertions about the report recently. The closest was the aforementioned fishing. I have no doubt that he will continue to not address and not read the report. Possibly trying to spin-off some minor aside into a whole new line of argument, possibly by using incredulity and no actual argument, Clayton style.

This is going to be his "moon-sized field of rubble", or "made out like a bandit" or [anything Clay says, ever]. Something he never retracts or discusses which hangs around his neck like an albatross forever.
 
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