German court bans circumcision of young boys

zeggman said:
Yes, just as it's the right of a parent to buckle a child into a car and drive to a restaurant rather than have food safely delivered to them at home.

Still, I would be interested in reading the list of boys who were circumcised in a hospital or doctor's office and didn't survive the procedure. It can't be a very long list.
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How long does it have to be?
 
Fun fact: In Germany, it is illegal to spank or smack your kids (apparently there are no sanctions if you do, though) and has been for over 10 years now, but apparently there's need to discuss whether it's okay to cut pieces off of them...
 
zeggman said:
You know what? You've convinced me. I'll continue to refute what I consider to be false claims about diminished pleasure etc., but since I don't see an upside (aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder, and I couldn't care less about religious tradition), and you've presented credible evidence for the downside, I won't oppose your calls for a ban on infant circumcision.
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I'm impressed. You have my respect.

Dave
 
Ryokan said:
You asked for evidence of a claim, it was provided, and this is your reply? Why are you even participating in this thread then?
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1) the beyond idiotic woo in the wiki article [snark] is so far beyond idiotic woo that I don't think it merited a response, hence...

2) that response you quoted wasn't even directed at you, which should be obvious to everyone except (apparently) you.

But if I have to....

Circumcision to discourage masturbation, sure that's logical And it worked so well.... :confused:

I'd be ashamed to advance such patently ridiculous arguments to advance any cause, in fact if I believed in something and read an article in support of it that so wholly defied logic it would probably give me pause about whether I was really on the right side. But I guess for some the tube-tapered ends justify the means....
 
Rolfe said:
Well, you see, getting a good post-operative result is a hell of a lot easier when operating on a large, physically mature organ. Doing what practically amounts to micro-surgery on an infant that still has all his growing to do is a lot harder.

Nobody is putting up the slightest objection to the circumcision of consenting 25-year-olds. Rolfe.
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Well they should be..

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Circumcision-deaths-worry-MEC-20120703

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/230-initiate-deaths-in-4-years-in-E-Cape-20110731

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/11-days-of-hell-at-initiate-school-20110629
 
brazenlilraisin said:
Circumcision to discourage masturbation, sure that's logical And it worked so well.... :confused:
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It should be abundantly clear that just because something is illogical and doesn't work will in no way discourage people from doing it.

What also seems pretty clear is that the majority of people who circumcise their children don't actually think about it very much at all - they do it because "that's what you do". So if that fashion started over 100 years ago for spurious reasons it doesn't necessarily tell us anything about why people continue to do it.
 
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brazenlilraisin said:
Circumcision to discourage masturbation, sure that's logical And it worked so well.... :confused:

I'd be ashamed to advance such patently ridiculous arguments to advance any cause, in fact if I believed in something and read an article in support of it that so wholly defied logic it would probably give me pause about whether I was really on the right side. But I guess for some the tube-tapered ends justify the means....
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No one said it was logical, and certainly no one has claimed that it worked. But if you want to deny history, be my guest and go ahead.
 
zeggman said:
Mm hmm, and removing a wart makes a nose imperfect.

It's just a bit of skin. I don't really care if Cindy Crawford decides to keep her mole as an adult, but if her parents had decided to remove it when she was a child I don't think I would have called it mutilation.

I don't think women in general admire penises as much as men think they should, but I've never had anything but compliments. When my undies hit the floor, no one's ever recoiled and said "My God, what happened to you?!?"
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So you can't see the difference between a wart an a functional body part? You must be a stump with a head on it by now due to all the finger, arm and leg removal that would inevitably lead to.
 
zeggman said:
Originally Posted by zeggman View Post
I didn't say a tumor, I said a mole. How do you feel about removing freckles?
But:


Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
A mole is a (benign) skin tumour.
So...

So nobody ever wrote about "Cindy Crawford's benign skin tumor". The fact that someone felt the need to RECAST a mole as a tumor to imply that there might be a valid medical reason for removing it just underscores how hysterical the language is on the part of the "ban it" crowd. And "mutilation"? Makes it sound like somebody got his johnson caught in the wood chipper.

It's just a bit of skin. There's probably no need to remove it, but there's also no need to lock up parents who circumcise their boys.
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Between your wart and mole commentary, i think you really need to learn more about human anatomy before you jump right into a debate about it.

To put it in perspective it'd be like someone entering a gun debate and saying " But what does it matter the size of the magazine, you just stick the bullets in the front of the barrel anyway.".
 
Dazed said:
Penile Skin Bridges from circumcision adhesions:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=penile+skin+bridges&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

Good luck to your kids getting up the courage to show that thing to a girl.
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And that is the thing, any dick based surgery, runs a huge chance of turning your wang into frankenpenis. So even the "But there is surgery to correct it" argument, is sank. Not only do you force one unnecessary and possibly harmful surgery on your child, but 2.

Seriously, at what point do people get control over their body to these folks?
 
sadhatter said:
Between your wart and mole commentary, i think you really need to learn more about human anatomy before you jump right into a debate about it.

To put it in perspective it'd be like someone entering a gun debate and saying " But what does it matter the size of the magazine, you just stick the bullets in the front of the barrel anyway.".
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Thanks for that content-free analogy.

If you'd like to actually address some flaw in my statement, rather than merely implying that one exists, I'll be here all week.
 
sadhatter said:
So you can't see the difference between a wart an a functional body part? You must be a stump with a head on it by now due to all the finger, arm and leg removal that would inevitably lead to.
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The intact skin which existed before my daughters got their ears pierced (well before the age of consent) was also a functional body part. Is it your position that I should be tried for mutilating my daughters?
 
zeggman said:
The intact skin which existed before my daughters got their ears pierced (well before the age of consent) was also a functional body part. Is it your position that I should be tried for mutilating my daughters?
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Of course not, no more than you could be tried for circumcising your son at the moment - because doing that is not currently illegal.

If there were a ban on body piercing minors, then anyone doing it would obviously open themselves up to legal sanctions.

Rolfe.
 
Besides which, although I've never had anything pierced, I understand that it isn't permanent. Am I wrong in this?
 
Rat said:
Besides which, although I've never had anything pierced, I understand that it isn't permanent. Am I wrong in this?
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Kind of. I had my ears pierced as a teenager, but discovered I was allergic to most earrings so I stopped wearing them. The holes have closed up but there is still a tiny amount of scar tissue where the holes were.

In any case, circumcision would be more analogous to surgically removing a child's earlobes than piercing their ears,
 
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