GlaxoSmithKline fined $3bn for bribing doctors, mis-selling drugs

[Estellea]

You'll have to do better than that.

These are the data that were withheld by GSK regarding just Paxil: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aPUuBLjesrR4&refer=europe relating to an increased risk of suicide in clinical trials of adolescents and young adults. I can't comment as to the validity of the lawsuits since causality can't be established.

Este

 

[m-n-m]

Their net operating profit was slightly over $2 billion in the first quarter of 2012. So a $3 billion fine is certainly not a pittance to them. It more than ate an entire quarter's profits.

Gosh, an entire quarter? Do you think they'll ever recover?

 

[ThunderChunky]

It takes two to bribe. Are any of the doctors being fined for accepting bribes?

 

[Puppycow]

Wow. Really?

I'm sorry that you're shocked and offended by such a simple request in a skeptical forum. I'm not denying your assertion, nor am I predisposed to disbelieve it, I just wanted to know what the evidence is.

I already gave you a link so you can hear the victims in their own words.

The link to the forum? I clicked on that, but I don't know where to start. I'm not going to wade through a haystack looking for a needle.

If you want some "science" behind the dangers of these drugs, there's plenty of that too. This is common knowledge. Even the manufacturer admits it can cause suicides.

Really? Common knowledge? I'm not sure I've ever even heard of the drug Paxil. Nor did I know that it was an antidepressant. I found with a little Googling that Paxil only became available in Japan on June 22 of this year. That's just two weeks ago. And prescription drugs are not advertised on TV or other media here as they are in the US. I'm pretty sure that if you surveyed residents of Japan, you would find that nothing about Paxil is "common knowledge" here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressants_in_Japan

http://www.furiousseasons.com/archives/2009/10/study_paxil_is_worst_drug_for_suicide_attempts.html

Antidepressants increased the risk compared to placebo of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies of major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of PAXIL or any other antidepressant in a child, adolescent, or young adult must balance this risk with the clinical need. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults aged 65 and older. Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. PAXIL is not approved for use in pediatric patients
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_paxil.pdf

Thanks. That's all I was asking for. Was that so hard?

 

[Baylor]

I'm sorry that you're shocked and offended by such a simple request in a skeptical forum. I'm not denying your assertion, nor am I predisposed to disbelieve it, I just wanted to know what the evidence is.

Ok. Sorry if I came across as rude. My strong personality doesn't translate well into cyberspace.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

As someone who has been on buproprion for 20 years, I'm reluctant to fault GSK completely. There were 5 murder suicides in my father's immediate family, [my grandfather (suicide), his parents (murder-suicide) and his uncle (murder-suicide)]. My brother and father were both alcoholics, as were both of my aunts on my father's side. Treatment with buproprion has kept me feeling rather normal after a bout of major depression ~20 years ago. Evidence supports the drug, buproprion, as a treatment for depression and as and adjuvant to quitting smoking.

Beyond that, it's disappointing but not unexpected to see the typical corporate greed in a large pharmaceutical company. You Libertarians and right wingers that think the free market takes care of this stuff without government regulation are living in lala land.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
Thanks. That's all I was asking for. Was that so hard?

A legit request.

Moving on, the problem with pediatric drug approval is complicated. On the one hand you have the issue of testing drugs on kids, it's difficult. The result is there are less options available to treat kids.

But on the other hand is that persistent profit motive problem.


The suicide data is just as complicated. I don't think the data clearly indicates the drugs are not useful.

 

[JJM 777]

I wouldn't call it a "pittance". $3bn actually seems like real money.

If the illegal profit is 28 bn, and the police take 3 bn, crime pays off and the law is nothing but a clown to laugh at by the medicine companies.

Where did they get this 3 bn figure anyway, if the illegal profits were 28 bn? If they actually knew that the profits were 28 bn when deciding that the fine shall be 3 bn, that tells all about it, on whose side the judges are.

 

[Estellea]

But SG, they (GSK) buried the data that demonstrated a statistically-signifcant number of adolescents who had a higher risk of suicide compared to the placebo group. They freakin bribed doctors and encouraged off-label use of their drugs. These are pre-meditated and criminal actions in my opinion.

Este

 

[Puppycow]

If the illegal profit is 28 bn, and the police take 3 bn, crime pays off and the law is nothing but a clown to laugh at by the medicine companies.

Where did they get this 3 bn figure anyway, if the illegal profits were 28 bn? If they actually knew that the profits were 28 bn when deciding that the fine shall be 3 bn, that tells all about it, on whose side the judges are.

Again, it has already been pointed out in this thread that sales are not profits. 28 bn is the gross sales of these drugs; the profits are those figures minus the cost of research and development, marketing and manufacturing (and various other overhead costs).

 

[Filippo Lippi]

If the illegal profit is 28 bn, and the police take 3 bn, crime pays off and the law is nothing but a clown to laugh at by the medicine companies.

.

No action in the UK after similar sharp practices, apparently, bleddy shameful.

 

[Estellea]

Again, it has already been pointed out in this thread that sales are not profits. 28 bn is the gross sales of these drugs; the profits are those figures minus the cost of research and development, marketing and manufacturing (and various other overhead costs).

I know, it costs a helluva lot of money to send their shills on posh holidays and buy authors and journal articles.

Pshaw, of all the times I've been accused of being a shill, I've never even received a helium ballon from pharma, let alone a hot-air balloon ride.

Este

 

[roger]

Yeah, I was going to mention that.

The article is conflating sales with profits. To calculate the profits you must subtract the costs of R&D, marketing and manufacturing the drug.

Doesn't look like their stock price has taken much of a hit though, at least not yet. Maybe this fine was expected though, and already factored into the price?

Yes, they actually were expecting a bigger fine, and had the cash socked away. In that sense the news was good, and the stock price rose a bit.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

But SG, they (GSK) buried the data that demonstrated a statistically-signifcant number of adolescents who had a higher risk of suicide compared to the placebo group. They freakin bribed doctors and encouraged off-label use of their drugs. These are pre-meditated and criminal actions in my opinion.

Este

From the perspective of a medical provider there are two major issues. One, the increasing reports of drug companies hiding negative results is indeed more than troubling.

But two, the public reaction can result in drugs we need being removed from the market due to ignorant responses to news reports that are themselves the result of profit driven scandal manufacture.

 

[Halfcentaur]

When I was 16 I was prescribed paxil, I hated the stuff. I gave me chills and tremors and electrical ticks and made me dizzy. I refused to take it after a few months.

 

[Baylor]

They freakin bribed doctors and encouraged off-label use of their drugs. These are pre-meditated and criminal actions in my opinion.

Mine too.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure they're still encouraging doctors to prescribe dutasteride for male pattern baldness. I only have anecdotal evidence for this, no documents--yet.

 

[megaresp]

Pshaw, of all the times I've been accused of being a shill, I've never even received a helium ballon from pharma, let alone a hot-air balloon ride.

My own GP here in the UK was so reluctant to prescribe sleeping pills I had to get down on my knees and beg. In the end she relented and prescribed 7.

Where are all these doctors that fall over themselves to hand out drugs as frequently as the government increases tax on petrol? And how do I go about becoming a patient?

 

[Baylor]

Where are all these doctors that fall over themselves to hand out drugs as frequently as the government increases tax on petrol? And how do I go about becoming a patient?

1)In the U.S.

2)Move to the U.S.

 

[jhunter1163]

Gosh, an entire quarter? Do you think they'll ever recover?

It's not going to put them out of business, but it's a lot of money in anyone's book.

 

[Baylor]

It's not going to put them out of business, but it's a lot of money in anyone's book.

That's no solice to the victims of these drugs.

But I'm getting repetitive.