General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Nick Terry said:
Your talent for failing to get the point never ceases to amaze me. Here is a rough summary of the 'conversation' as it has been repeated umpteen times since the summer of 2010 when you showed up here:

1. Accepted history: 5 to 6 million European Jews were murdered in a genocide by the Nazis and their allies by a combination of methods including gas chambers killing 2-3 million.

2. Dogzilla: no they weren't. Zisblatt blah blah there were no gas chambers.

3. Puzzled skeptic: so what happened to them then?

4. Dogzilla: I don't know.

5. Annoyed skeptic: sod off then.

As long as your answer in stage #4 is 'I don't know', then you have not laid a dent on stage #1, end of story.
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Then the only two choices are 1) survive the war and maintain/reestablish contact with everybody they knew or 2) be murdered by the Nazis as part of their plan to exterminate the Jews. If that's not what you're saying, tell us what an option 3 or an option 4 would be.
 
Dogzilla said:
Then the only two choices are 1) survive the war and maintain/reestablish contact with everybody they knew or 2) be murdered by the Nazis as part of their plan to exterminate the Jews. If that's not what you're saying, tell us what an option 3 or an option 4 would be.
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How about you tell us, since you're the one that's supposedly offering an alternate theory? This false dichotomy is of your own making. Give us a viable alternative. Show us your evidence that something, anything, other than 2) happened.
 
Nick Terry said:
there's also no false dichotomy in asking Dogzilla what happened to the Jews if they were not murdered, since 'what happened' could well cover all kinds of things.

Dogzilla doesn't know what happened to them, by his own admission. And then wonders why everyone thinks he is clueless....
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I apologize. I've been understanding the question as a false dichotomy of either survival or murder. What you're really saying is that Jews might've suffered any number of fates, but if Dogzilla doesn't know what that fate was, then they were murdered. OK. I get it now. That makes perfect sense.
 
Dogzilla said:
Then the only two choices are 1) survive the war and maintain/reestablish contact with everybody they knew or 2) be murdered by the Nazis as part of their plan to exterminate the Jews. If that's not what you're saying, tell us what an option 3 or an option 4 would be.
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Your 1) assumes that everyone they knew also survived.

Were you going to get around to actually making an affirmative point any time soon?
 
Dogzilla, your new theories are failing Occams Razor as you have to make more and more unsupported outlandish assumptions.
 
Nessie said:
Loner theory :confused: That is seriously clutching at straws.
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I'm having an image of a Nederlandsche SS in Amsterdam, waving a submachine gun -- "You there, with the yellow star! Do you have close friends or family? Okay, then -- on to the train with you!"

"But...I'm a branch manager at the Bank of the Netherlands -- my co-workers would wonder where I'd gone."

"Oh. Sorry then, sir. Don't tell anyone about this conversation, though, or we will have you....err....left in place and severely frowned at."
 
TSR said:
Yeah, since the ITS at Bar Arolsen have had no one, no one at all contact them for assistance in locating a victim of the Holocaust

They've been sitting over there, twiddling their thumbs for 70 years now...
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The official story goes something like only the registered prisoners would have records. The hundreds of thousands/millions of Jews who were exterminated weren't registered so there wouldn't be records of them at Bad Arolson. But that wouldn't be a hindrance because we know what happened if a Jew is missing and we know there's only a few tiny, clearly defined places where the could have ended up.

And, yet, in 70 years, nobody has bothered to look beyond Bad Arolson. The question is: why?
 
Dogzilla said:
And, yet, in 70 years, nobody has bothered to look beyond Bad Arolson. The question is: why?
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Why haven't the deniers? Finding that all those "missing" Jews aren't, in fact, missing at all and so weren't murdered in the Holocaust would be quite the coup for the denialists, and quite the blow to the Holohoax Zionspiracy.

So why, in 70 years, have all those diligent deniers been quite unable to do that?

EDIT: For instance, where are all these people?
 
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Dogzilla said:
The official story goes something like only the registered prisoners would have records. The hundreds of thousands/millions of Jews who were exterminated weren't registered so there wouldn't be records of them at Bad Arolson. But that wouldn't be a hindrance because we know what happened if a Jew is missing and we know there's only a few tiny, clearly defined places where the could have ended up.

And, yet, in 70 years, nobody has bothered to look beyond Bad Arolson. The question is: why?
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Registration information isn't the only documentation at Bad Arolsen, and some have gone [URL="http://act.mtv.com/posts/eighth-graders-use-facebook-to-reunite-holocaust-survivors/"][URL="https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=169888066413927"]beyond[/URL][/URL] Bad Arolsen
 
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Nessie said:
Loner theory :confused: That is seriously clutching at straws.
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No, it's just about the stupidest thing you've ever read on this forum. But the accepted historiography tells us that hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered and buried in a handful of very small well defined areas in Poland. The accepted historiography tells us that many of these people were dug up, incinerated, and reburied. So there's no guarantee that you would be able to find a specific individual. But the accepted historiography tells us that there are still significant human remains buried there. So if we accept the historiography of the camps, we know there's a chance that specific individuals could be identified.

Yet nobody has ever looked. It's mindbogglingly stupid to believe that not a single Jewish person knows that their mother, father, brother, spouse, child, etc. is buried at one of these camps but has never bothered to look. This seemingly callous lack of concern about a loved one's remains needs to explained within the accepted historiography. There are actually several competing theories:

1) Judaism doesn't have any death rituals. When someone dies, just get the body out of here so we don't have to see it or smell it. But beyond, who cares? I know that is not the case with any religion and especially not the Jews.

2) The loner theory. Nobody who survived knows anybody who was exterminated. Those who were exterminated didn't have anybody in their life to care what happened. Because most people don't take a personal interest in the funeral arrangement for a complete stranger and instead rely upon a friend or family member of that stranger to make any necessary arrangements, the fact that nobody has cared about any of the hundreds of thousands/millions of Jews buried at the camps means that all those people were strangers. They might not have been loners their entire life. But they were loners in the sense that nobody who was alive after the war knows who they are. If we can believe they were loners in death, we can believe they would be loners if they survived as well. This of course explains why these survivors were never heard from again--they had nobody to call!

Although there might have been some people who had no friends or who's entire village was wiped out, it's highly unlikely that all of those people were loners.

So there's the last scenario. This is the one that puts all the pieces of the puzzle together and, given the current state of knowledge, is the best:

3) Those people were never there. They didn't survive the war nor were they exterminated by the Nazis. That's why nobody has gone looking for them and why they haven't contacted anybody. There have been downward adjustments in holocaust death tolls in the past but not once in 70 years has a decrease in the body count been balanced by the revelation that a corresponding number of previously unknown Jews has been located. That's never been a criteria in the past and it isn't one today.

If someday we find evidence of hundreds of thousands of people actually having been buried underneath the ground at these camps, we might have to revisit the Loner Theory. But until then, we can just assume all those missing Jews are living in the secret cave with the 2.5 million Auschwitz victims and the however many hundreds of thousands or millions of victims were recovered when Madjanek was adjusted.
 
Dogzilla said:
I apologize. I've been understanding the question as a false dichotomy of either survival or murder. What you're really saying is that Jews might've suffered any number of fates, but if Dogzilla doesn't know what that fate was, then they were murdered. OK. I get it now. That makes perfect sense.
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And let's replace a false dichotomy by a strawman. If you're not going to debate honestly, why bother ?

Oh, so where did those 6 million Jews go ?
 
So, Dogzilla's argument is that the reason neither he nor any other denier has been able to find out what happened to the Jews of Europe if they weren't murdered by the Nazis is because they never existed in the first place?!

That's certainly taking denial to a whole new level.
 
ANTPogo said:
So, Dogzilla's argument is that the reason neither he nor any other denier has been able to find out what happened to the Jews of Europe if they weren't murdered by the Nazis is because they never existed in the first place?!

That's certainly taking denial to a whole new level.
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Vic-Sims in new clothes.

Also "I don't know what happened to the Jews but I know they weren't gassed."
 
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Multivac said:
That is a very good point. If there was no policy ok killing Jews, nobody would need Hitler's signature to stop a Jew from being killed.
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This is a very good point. If there was a policy of killing Jews, why Hitler exempt any of them?
 
Dogzilla said:
This is a very good point. If there was a policy of killing Jews, why Hitler exempt any of them?
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Is this going to be the "the Nazis either wanted to kill all Jews or they wanted to kill none at all" false dichotomy again?
 
pooshoodog said:
Dogzilla seems to have the kindergarten notion that we are asking him and his fellow obfuscators to find every Jew allegedly murdered. What he fails to understand is that we haven't found anyone alive after being deported to AR camps other than the handful of escapees and those who rebelled. What he is being asked is to locate someone believed to be gassed at, say, Treblinka. His assertion, if that is what he is asserting in this garbled, silly post, obscures the one essential fact - if the Jews were transitted elsewhere from the AR camps there would be a detailed narrative documenting their travels. To claim that no German staff, no civilian bystanders, and none of the deported where ever heard from on a single occasion over the past 70 years is mind bogglingly stupid. But that is where revisionism is. Good for a laugh.
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Why would I get the idea I've been asked to find all the missing Jews? Hmmm. Where o' where indeed?
 
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