Supreme Court Health Care Decision Thread

[Kestrel]

No, I had it right. There are a few exceptions to the tax. I think Native Americans, living on tribe owned land, don't have to pay it, and people who've had a religious belief that they can prove they adhere to, that prevents the use of medicine or medical care. Those are the only people whom are exempt from paying the "No insurance" tax. I do agree that very few will be faced with the tax much past about 2014.

Well, unless you live in Florida. Not sure how this is going to work....

http://www.floridatoday.com/viewart...health-care-law?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home

If I recall correctly, the Federal government is allowed to set up health insurance exchanges if a state doesn't act. But if Florida doesn't cooperate, they will end up with a greater percentage of uninsured residents than other states and more people paying the penalty for not having insurance. Florida residents will also have to pay the other taxes that are part of the bill regardless of state cooperation.

Hospitals will end up treating some of these people regardless, and shifting the costs to insured patients. Florida residents will end up paying more for insurance. Florida emergency rooms will also have more uninsured patients clogging the waiting rooms.

 

[gnome]

And they'll happily blame the new law.

 

[This is The End]

The choice is, buy the insurance you can afford, OR, pay the tax.

Do you have an estimate for what the cheapest possible health insurance would be then?

For instance, the cheapest possible car insurance, that still meats all the legal guidelines, is around $30 a month.

Remember, someone making minimum wage in this country and working 30 hours a week barely brings home $1000 a month.

 

[Puppycow]

Rightwing Blogger’s Shocking Discovery: John Roberts Was Blackmailed, Arrests To Come Soon!

Later this afternoon, it’s going to come out that Roberts was coerced. A Secret Service agent overheard Obama and Axelrod discussing the Roberts blackmail. He managed to get them on tape discussing it. Later this afternoon, the whole story will come out, Roberts will issue his REAL opinion, and Obama and Axelrod will be taken away in handcuffs.

 

[Puppycow]

A Children’s Treasury Of Wingnut Obamacare Freakouts

benshapiro @benshapiro

This is the greatest destruction of individual liberty since Dred Scott. This is the end of America as we know it. No exaggeration.

Pamela Geller @pamelageller

Obama yappin' again-why aren't there any American flags in the frame? Typical The flag to Obama is like the siver cross to Dracula #obamatax

Really?? Obama was on the teevee and there wasn't an American flag visible in the background?? This is important somehow??

 

[Foolmewunz]

A Children’s Treasury Of Wingnut Obamacare Freakouts




Really?? Obama was on the teevee and there wasn't an American flag visible in the background?? This is important somehow??

Well, if that's the real Pamela Geller, I'm sure it's further proof of the incursion of Sharia law.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Then there are people who won't qualify for the penalty even though they aren't buying coverage for themselves:

Medicare patients

<snip>

Just a small nit to pick here. Most Medicare patients do buy coverage for themselves of one sort or another. If they are not already paying for insurance through some other means (spouse, pension plan, elective private policy,...) they are supposed to purchase Part B coverage from the government. This cost is deducted from any benefits they might receive as a monthly stipend from SSA. Around $100 per month (or more, depending on income.)

For some (couples especially) living on disability or retirement income alone this can amount to a substantial percentage of their income.

Yes, they can "opt out". But if they choose to do so, and do not provide alternative coverage then up the road they will very likely encounter penalties.

Not all that different from the ACA approach.

 

[Kestrel]

Do you have an estimate for what the cheapest possible health insurance would be then?

For instance, the cheapest possible car insurance, that still meats all the legal guidelines, is around $30 a month.

Remember, someone making minimum wage in this country and working 30 hours a week barely brings home $1000 a month.

The law provides subsidies for households that earn less than 400% of the Federal poverty level. The subsidy limits their total expenditures for health insurance to the range of 2% to 9.5% of total income.

A single person household earning minimum wage for 30 hours a week would be very near the poverty level and qualify for the highest subsidy. They would probably qualify for Medicaid, but if they didn't they would pay only 2% of their total income, or roughly $20 a month for health insurance.

 

[gnome]

Once this begins, a very good statistic to pay attention to is how many people actually are assessed the penalty.

 

[Unabogie]

Just a small nit to pick here. Most Medicare patients do buy coverage for themselves of one sort or another. If they are not already paying for insurance through some other means (spouse, pension plan, elective private policy,...) they are supposed to purchase Part B coverage from the government. This cost is deducted from any benefits they might receive as a monthly stipend from SSA. Around $100 per month (or more, depending on income.)

For some (couples especially) living on disability or retirement income alone this can amount to a substantial percentage of their income.

Yes, they can "opt out". But if they choose to do so, and do not provide alternative coverage then up the road they will very likely encounter penalties.

Not all that different from the ACA approach.

Thank you. Putting the E in JREF!

 

[Unabogie]

Once this begins, a very good statistic to pay attention to is how many people actually are assessed the penalty.

I wonder if it will differ wildly from the rates in Mass? In Mass, it's 98% participation. But will there be a segment of the nation who will do some sort of crazy civil disobedience that will result in more people incurring the penalty than there should be?

We know Jindal is making noises like he won't institute the exchanges, but not Rick Scott is saying the same thing. I wonder if Red Staters will end up with objectors who bring the penalty on themselves so they can scream about TYRANNY?

By the way, I'm going to start a thread on what the exchanges will look like in each state. I'm curious about how this is being handled.

 

[Kestrel]

I wonder if it will differ wildly from the rates in Mass? In Mass, it's 98% participation. But will there be a segment of the nation who will do some sort of crazy civil disobedience that will result in more people incurring the penalty than there should be?

We know Jindal is making noises like he won't institute the exchanges, but not Rick Scott is saying the same thing. I wonder if Red Staters will end up with objectors who bring the penalty on themselves so they can scream about TYRANNY?

Lots of people will make noise, encouraged by the usual right wing pundits on talk radio. The web sites already devoted to idiot legal theories and freeman on the land woo will take up the cause. But in the end, the IRS will collect the tax and assess penalties. And a few of these nut cases will end up in bankruptcy due to medical bills.

The brighter residents of the states that don't cooperate will notice that they are paying all the new taxes, but not getting the same level of benefits as the states that do. Perhaps they can convince their neighbors to vote in a new set of politicians.

 

[Unabogie]

Lots of people will make noise, encouraged by the usual right wing pundits on talk radio. The web sites already devoted to idiot legal theories and freeman on the land woo will take up the cause. But in the end, the IRS will collect the tax and assess penalties. And a few of these nut cases will end up in bankruptcy due to medical bills.

The brighter residents of the states that don't cooperate will notice that they are paying all the new taxes, but not getting the same level of benefits as the states that do. Perhaps they can convince their neighbors to vote in a new set of politicians.

Yeah, I've even read some stuff recently about Teabaggers objecting to the very concept of health insurance and asking "why can't we just pay our doctors in cash, like John Adams did?"

It's just so over the top. I hope they get better soon.

 

[Kestrel]

Yeah, I've even read some stuff recently about Teabaggers objecting to the very concept of health insurance and asking "why can't we just pay our doctors in cash, like John Adams did?"

I suspect you can find someone to do a bit of bloodletting for a fraction of the cost of visiting a licensed doctor. And most likely they will want to be paid in cash.

 

[The Dark Lord]

I imagine most health care providers would prefer to be paid upfont in cash rather than having to deal with insurance companies. Nobody is stopping these morons from doing that. Well, except reality as few people can afford to pay for any kind of healthcare they might need in cash.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Do you have an estimate for what the cheapest possible health insurance would be then?

For instance, the cheapest possible car insurance, that still meats all the legal guidelines, is around $30 a month.

Remember, someone making minimum wage in this country and working 30 hours a week barely brings home $1000 a month.

Are you forgetting the ACA has assistance for the poor built in?

Are you interpreting "you can afford" to only mean unsupplemented coverage when some of it is indeed supplemented?

 

[This is The End]

The law provides subsidies for households that earn less than 400% of the Federal poverty level. The subsidy limits their total expenditures for health insurance to the range of 2% to 9.5% of total income.

A single person household earning minimum wage for 30 hours a week would be very near the poverty level and qualify for the highest subsidy. They would probably qualify for Medicaid, but if they didn't they would pay only 2% of their total income, or roughly $20 a month for health insurance.

Thank you very much for the info!

 

[This is The End]

Are you forgetting the ACA has assistance for the poor built in?

Are you interpreting "you can afford" to only mean unsupplemented coverage when some of it is indeed supplemented?

Sorry, I was looking for direct answers to my question. I wasn't trying to spin anything. I know there is so much of that going on it is hard to tell!

 

[JFrankA]

I wonder if it will differ wildly from the rates in Mass? In Mass, it's 98% participation. But will there be a segment of the nation who will do some sort of crazy civil disobedience that will result in more people incurring the penalty than there should be?

We know Jindal is making noises like he won't institute the exchanges, but not Rick Scott is saying the same thing. I wonder if Red Staters will end up with objectors who bring the penalty on themselves so they can scream about TYRANNY?

By the way, I'm going to start a thread on what the exchanges will look like in each state. I'm curious about how this is being handled.

I took the time to make this graphic as to which states have chosen to take the ACA or not; or have at least accepted or rejected the grant that goes with it.


https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__vxe9L0TijNVBHY0EyNFYtVzQ

This information is based upon this article, which I thought was very interesting.

http://m.apnews.mobi/ap/db_6776/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=S4ha0QCe

 

[quadraginta]

I took the time to make this graphic as to which states have chosen to take the ACA or not; or have at least accepted or rejected the grant that goes with it.


https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__vxe9L0TijNVBHY0EyNFYtVzQ

This information is based upon this article, which I thought was very interesting.

http://m.apnews.mobi/ap/db_6776/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=S4ha0QCe

Nice chart. Thanks, Frank.