General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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LemmyCaution said:
. . . but is he trying to make out that the Red Cross vouched for German behavior at Ponar and the Seventh and Ninth Forts in Kovno? So, Mr Moore, do you want to defend Dogzilla's theses? Take on the Jaeger Report?
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Mr Moore? Ahem. Mr Moore?
 
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Dogzilla said:
Does the Jaeger Report specify the killing of people not classified as Jews?
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And...dodge!

Dogzilla said:
So the only possible fates for the Jews of Europe was 1) survive the war and maintain contact with everybody they knew before the war or 2) be murdered by the Nazis as part of their program to exterminate the Jews? Yes or No?
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Would you care to answer the question? If those six million Jews weren't killed, what happened to them? Why do you desperately and transparently go through so much trouble in order to avoid answering this question every time you are asked, or even simply admitting you don't know? Literally no one here is proposing anything like your false dichotomy.

Dogzilla said:
I can google "Jaeger Report" as easily as anybody. I know the answer. I want you to tell us what it is. Does the Jaeger Report specify the killing of people not classified as Jews?
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You weren't asked about what the report is, you were asked about what its contents, and now you're hoping for someone to summarize so you don't actually have to read it.

If you have any point whatsoever to make based on information in the report, you would have made it by now instead of fishing.

Clayton Moore said:
So what about video's explanation of the oven roadblock and the dragging of bodies roadblock that would have prevented even daily gassings of 2000 Jewish people?

Team Holocaust has been avoiding it like a marathon on an 109 degree day.
So has Terry.
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You mean "even weekly/monthly/seasonally". You want a larger time period, Clay, not a smaller one.

The impairments were largely temporary. Funny thing; when people pointed out that the Nazis' cars occasionally broke down, you strawmanned it as "what, so the Nazis couldn't keep a car running?" Yet now you're using the breakdowns in "production" as evidence of your point. And you're still wrong.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Yet Zisblatt has had the blessing of the Holocaust community to continue to speak to school children and at other speaking engagements long after it was known she was lying. And there have never, that I am aware of, been any retractions or apologies from the networks of her many TV appearances.


Has the NYT exposed her big time as a fraud?
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There is no "holocaust community" unless you define it as "everyone who's not a denier and knows about the existence of the holocaust". The NYT is under no obligation to report on her. Even a cursory check exposes her as a fraud. No one in this thread, even the people you say are part of Team Holocaust, denies she's a fraud. I've just said she is explicitly. And if people paying her--which you have provided no evidence for--don't do enough research to learn the truth, that's their problem.

Clayton Moore said:
What bunch of nonsense.


Forest fires?

In the 1940s how do you stop forest fires from burning everything in sight including the camps?
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Bald denial, incredulity. Your SOP.

Clayton Moore said:
It's just freaky stupid nonsense.
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Sounds like a good name for a band.
 
I have to admit, the argument that "the Holocaust couldn't have happened because of forest fires!" is certainly a novel approach to denialsm...
 
Dogzilla said:
So what is antisemitic about six million Jews not being exterminated? I'm not understanding the logic behind this particular expression of hate.
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Nicely framed, Dogzilla.

The holocaust denier isn't saying "Guess what, guys ? Those Jews weren't killed ! It's such a good thing !", he's saying "Those damned Jews are lying to us and are using everybody in the world to cover their attempt to rule humanity ! Spread the word !"

Don't try to fool me. You know full well what holocaust denial really is.
 
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nomuse said:
And we don't call them antisemites because they doubt the killings. We call them that because through all of their writings are little bits of "But they asked for it," and "Normal people wouldn't act that way," and "But we only believe in the Holocaust in the first place because the Jews control the media."
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Indeed. It's odd how they claim that the holocaust didn't happen on the one hand, but you can tell they're either kinda glad it did, or think it should have.
 
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Belz... said:
Indeed. It's odd how they claim that the holocause didn't happen on the one hand, but you can tell they're either kinda glad it did, or think it should have.
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The essence of Holocaust denial is "the Holocaust never happened and the Jews deserved it!"
 
LemmyCaution said:
I doubt I've ever read a clearer expression of one purpose behind denial - disrespect for Jews by insulting their history and the memory of those murdered and otherwise attacked, wrapped up in a cloak of sanctimony. Baiting. Belittling. Mocking.
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I think nomuse got it right. Jews have been hated for ages because they tend to be somewhat successful at business. Good for them, I say. But that gets people jealous, and since Jews are an ethnicity, they're so easy to single out. Focus all your frustration and anger at them, excise them, and voilà !
 
Dogzilla said:
So the only possible fates for the Jews of Europe was 1) survive the war and maintain contact with everybody they knew before the war or 2) be murdered by the Nazis as part of their program to exterminate the Jews? Yes or No?
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I would think that A) Survival and B) Death are pretty much the only options. If you can think of a reason why you'd get a C), be my guest. Also, please explain why they would A) survive and D) Vanish.
 
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ANTPogo said:
I have to admit, the argument that "the Holocaust couldn't have happened because of forest fires!" is certainly a novel approach to denialsm...
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It's certainly more entertaining that trying to pass off denialism as something positive, like saying that 6 million Jews didn't actually die.
 
Or that they, alone among everyone in history who's faced similar oppression, would've been instantly driven to suicidal rage, and saying that they wouldn't have is actually some kind of insult.
 
Nick Terry said:
Which community is that?

Zisblatt is a total non-person in Britain, Germany, France, Poland and Israel. Her book hasn't been published outside of the US, she hasn't spoken to any school outside of the US.

Has Zisblatt been given the blessing of USHMM or Yad Vashem? If you believe she has, please prove it.
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Your inane interjection of nonsense proves it.
 
Lies from Team Holocaust abound. Big freaking whoppers.


The two sites of provided are convoluted and a mishmash of nonsense.



http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/



http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/12/germans-wouldnt-have-done-it-that-way.html

The following supposed testimony is pure fabricated idiocy.

The institution inmates were locked into the bunker with the explosive charges, the Jewish men into the other. The area was sealed off so that the »experiment« could begin. In Nebe's refuge the detonator cables were activated, then there was a short explosion. The desired effect had not occurred as expected. While the wooden roof had collapsed and the door had been blown open, half of the patients crawled or ran out of the bunker in panic, screaming loudly. While Jewish forced laborers had to catch the surviving patients in the twilight, Widmann and his companions analyzed their errors. They concluded that the explosive charge had been too weak, and a second attempt was undertaken. After this explosion the refuge collapsed completely, and there was no longer any noise. Several parts of the victims' corpses were hanging in the trees. Now the hole in the ground should have been filled-in by the Jewish ghetto inmates, but these had managed to flee in the general confusion.
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Clayton Moore said:
The IRC said there was no genocide going on in the camps.

Duuuh.

Try and keep up.
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Once again, you post this lie.

Once again, I invite you to cite the document where they said any such thing.

Once again, you will run away like a brave little Defender of Only Some Things German.

Just like you are running from documenting the "blessing" Zisblatt had from the "Holocaust Community"/

Just like you are running from Irving's lies.

Just like you are running from substantively addressing the rebuttal of your dragging whine.

Do you see the basic pattern of heroic impotence everyone else discerns in your posts?
 
Clayton Moore said:
The following supposed testimony is pure fabricated idiocy.
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The institution inmates were locked into the bunker with the explosive charges, the Jewish men into the other. The area was sealed off so that the »experiment« could begin. In Nebe's refuge the detonator cables were activated, then there was a short explosion. The desired effect had not occurred as expected. While the wooden roof had collapsed and the door had been blown open, half of the patients crawled or ran out of the bunker in panic, screaming loudly. While Jewish forced laborers had to catch the surviving patients in the twilight, Widmann and his companions analyzed their errors. They concluded that the explosive charge had been too weak, and a second attempt was undertaken. After this explosion the refuge collapsed completely, and there was no longer any noise. Several parts of the victims' corpses were hanging in the trees. Now the hole in the ground should have been filled-in by the Jewish ghetto inmates, but these had managed to flee in the general confusion.
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And the *proof* of this fabrication is ... ?

Or, despite your history of posting lies and distortions, are we just supposed to take your word for it?

Have you even read Andrej Angrick's "Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord. Die Einsatzgruppe D in der südlichen Sowjetunion 1941-1943"?

What am I saying? Of *course* you have not. 1) You don't read German, and 2) you don't read books.

Which means that not only do you *not* have any evidence of fabrication (other than "I don' wanna beleeb it") you *know* you do not, and yet made the claim anyway.


Help me out, ladies and gentlemen -- there's an obvious descriptor for someone who posts knowing untruths which I am constrained from using. Could someone else please apply it to cm in this instance?
 
Clayton Moore said:
The IRC said there was no genocide going on in the camps.

Duuuh.

Try and keep up.
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Did you ever cite the IRC stating this?
Where's the document?

Nope... You haven't. With out evidence to support this it is a groundless claim.

You Note how telling people to "try and keep up" when you keep slamming into that first hurdle and squashing your snozzleberries just draws attention to your failure to supply evidence.

Who wants to keep up with an argument yet to go anywhere.
 
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