Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[bookworm]

In fairness, all I wanted to do was relate an experience that eerily reminded me of this case. There I was, watching a person suffer a single fall and end up with a wound that looked like this same stupid cut we keep arguing about. What it says to me is that the cut on George's head could be the result of a fall, and not bashing. I don't think it PROVES anything, other than this: George's cuts are not proof of bashing. They could have come from simply falling at some point. In fact, in his first version of events, that's exactly what he claims happened.

So what could be the truth? He tried to grab Trayvon, Trayvon hit him, he fell, hit his head, and then set off chasing him to where they ended up. And from that point, there would not have to be smothering or bashing to explain the injuries.

Can I prove that? No, but it fits the evidence better than George's unbelievable story.

Good post Unabogie - I've had some of those moments myself. But by God, imagine if I'd posted about them! They'd be strawmen!!!!

 

[Unabogie]

Good post Unabogie - I've had some of those moments myself. But by God, imagine if I'd posted about them! They'd be strawmen!!!!

No, a strawman is where you falsely attribute to someone else a position they don't hold in order to easily knock it down.

What I've presented is "argument by anecdote".

 

[bookworm]

No, a strawman is where you falsely attribute to someone else a position they don't hold in order to easily knock it down.

What I've presented is "argument by anecdote".

Hmm. Seems like I'm not the only one around here who doesn't know the proper meaning. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[triforcharity]

I've been following along just fine, thank you. Take the old man falling example. 2 old men, exactly the same circumstances, except one of them put his arm out and caught the ground. Are they going to have the same wounds?

Incredible the bias here. No problem with the old man falling post, but a problem with the baseballs.

Actually, if YOU will look at THIS thread bookworm, you'll see that I in fact DID have a problem with that. In fact, I pointed out why it was IRRELEVANT.

But, you're following along.....Gotcha. I'm calling BS.

And a baseball striking a movable round object, will produce different results from one centimeter to the next. Also, velocity has a lot to do with it also.

But, you're following along. Gotcha. BS.

 

[triforcharity]

I think they follow along just fine, and his/her initial sarcastic point about the baseball was obvious and spot on.

To try to compare the impacts of two round objects, to another impact of two round objects, is absurd, and retarded. Their reactions can be WILDLY different from a fraction of a centimeter difference. So, it's a stupid comparison. But you fell for it.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

To try to compare the impacts of two round objects, to another impact of two round objects, is absurd, and retarded. Their reactions can be WILDLY different from a fraction of a centimeter difference. So, it's a stupid comparison. But you fell for it.

Um, yes it was meant to be stupid, and was mocking arguing against GZ's injuries by pointing to an old guy that got injured on a treadmill. If you can show where I "fell for it", what ever the hell that means, I'd enjoy it, for now I'll just conclude you're making things up because I defended him in a post.

 

[crimresearch]

Wait, so let me make sure I understand your position.

State wants to suggest and prove that Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, and due to his racism, fuels his desire to "not let this one get away".

Your rebuttal to this would be to point out that sometimes, people in authority are racist and have a bias towards some group, and that proves that GZ was not fueled by racism and his blatant profiling.

Is that correct?

The state is not on trial. Just because a cop somewhere else, or even the SPD had some racist person working for them, proves nothing. It's IRRELEVANT. It would NEVER make it past muster.

I don't need a link to tell you that the state is not on trial, and what someone else may or may not have done, is irrelevant.

Setting aside your strawmen that I never posted, denying that the defense is allowed to suggest bias where evidence exists, is certainly your right... and, you're wrong.

And I'm betting that evidence exists in a few recent incidents.

If the state wants to drag in the claim that Zimmerman's step up to murder was was because of his racism, they've opened the door for the defense to go after that.

Since the defendant is every bit as non-white as the victim, and since the FBI doesn't seem to have uncovered too much in their civil rights investigation of GZ, I think the prosecution would be making a mistake to continue that approach.

 

[tsig]

OMG, did the man Unabogie was talking about die ?

No, the guy Z was did.

 

[Cylinder]

If the state wants to drag in the claim that Zimmerman's step up to murder was was because of his racism, they've opened the door for the defense to go after that.

And they can bridge the gap using Zimmerman's activism in the beating of Sherman Ware at the hands of the son of a SPD lieutenant tied in with whatever the hell Serino did to get reassigned to overnight patrol.

ETA: MOM has already requested a Bill of Particulars from the state, so we should know sometime soon what the state's theory of crime is.

 

[LTC8K6]

Thank you. I guess some people want to have it both ways. On the one hand, George's many, many, repeated bashings against concrete only resulted in a couple, small wounds that bled pretty well. Therefore, George is a pretty tough guy who doesn't bruise or cut easily. On the other, he was in fear for his life due to the vicious beating he was taking.

He's a walking duality, that guy. He falls straight down to the ground in a sideways motion that takes him 40 feet down the grass, too.

Once again, he doesn't have to fear for his life.

Once again, he doesn't have to have severe injuries.

Why do these falsehoods persist in this thread?

Drop it already. You know better.

 

[triforcharity]

Setting aside your strawmen that I never posted, denying that the defense is allowed to suggest bias where evidence exists, is certainly your right... and, you're wrong.

Ok, so what WAS your point? Please, spell it out.

And I'm betting that evidence exists in a few recent incidents.

If the state wants to drag in the claim that Zimmerman's step up to murder was was because of his racism, they've opened the door for the defense to go after that.

I certainly goes towards his state of mind, absolutely. The defense could go after that, sure. But, attacking someone ELSE, who is not on trial, and not even RELEVANT to the case, it won't be allowed. Not sure how this confuses you, you're a fairly smart man, I've read many of your posts.

Since the defendant is every bit as non-white as the victim, and since the FBI doesn't seem to have uncovered too much in their civil rights investigation of GZ, I think the prosecution would be making a mistake to continue that approach.

Didn't know that white people were the only people capable of racism and bias.

The FBI and the DOJ said that it could be a year or more before they're ready for any kind of charges.

But, we'll have to wait and see about that part.

 

[triforcharity]

And they can bridge the gap using Zimmerman's activism in the beating of Sherman Ware at the hands of the son of a SPD lieutenant tied in with whatever the hell Serino did to get reassigned to overnight patrol.

ETA: MOM has already requested a Bill of Particulars from the state, so we should know sometime soon what the state's theory of crime is.

Maybe you can explain how that case would be relevant? I don't see the connection.

 

[triforcharity]

Once again, he doesn't have to fear for his life.

Once again, he doesn't have to have severe injuries.

Why do these falsehoods persist in this thread?

Drop it already. You know better.

The problem is simple, no matter how much you stamp your feet, cry, whine, pout, and put your fingers in your ears.

GZ claims he was in a severe fight. (True.)

His injuries only LOOSELY support that claim. (According to even the detective)

He claims two different stories about how his head was injured. (Remember the original thread? First it was he fell back from TM's punch.....then it was.....)

His story has changed from the original claim.

So, which is it? How does he get the injuries, and how do you know that to be factual? If he was in a simple fistfight, and was knocked on his ass, fell back, hit his head on the concrete) he is going to have a REALLY hard time claiming he was in fear of his life or great bodily harm. VERY difficult.

Now, you're welcome to call me wrong, and pout some more about GBH, FOL, and all that jazz, but at the end of the day, GZ is STILL facing life in prison, and will have only a few choices.

Take this to trial and risk the rest of your life that the jury is fooled by lies

Plea to a lesser charge, and maybe see your wife when she's 45.

---------------------

As an aside, I re-watched the bond hearing today. The EMT (with the crazy last name) did in fact say that the lacerations had in fact stopped bleeding by the time he arrived.

This is really damming. If the wounds were as severe as claimed, and "should have had stitches" the night before (again, according to GZ et al. ) but yet, the purpose of stitches is to close a wound that is having difficulty staying closed, and to promote the formation of clots and scabs.

But, it was closed by the time EMS arrived.......So, I will disagree 100% that GZ's lacerations needed stitches that night. It had already formed clots and stopped bleeding.

 

[LTC8K6]

He doesn't even need any injuries at all.

And no one is whining or crying or stomping their feet.

I haven't claimed his injuries were severe, or claimed he needed stitches, other than as a joke.

If you'd stop attacking other people for five minutes, maybe we could get somewhere in this discussion...

It's against board rules for a good reason, it ruins threads.

If you say:

stamp your feet, cry, whine, pout, and put your fingers in your ears

again about me, you can have this discussion by yourself.

 

[crimresearch]

Didn't know that white people were the only people capable of racism and bias.

Then get a clue.

Goodbye.

 

[This is The End]

Didn't know that white people were the only people capable of racism and bias.

Then get a clue.

Goodbye.

Wait... what?? Is crim seriously claiming that only white people are capable of racism and bias....

 

[Rare Truth]

Then get a clue.

Goodbye.

Wow.

 

[Rare Truth]

He doesn't even need any injuries at all.
....

Imagine a world where all a person has to say is...I was in fear of imminent death and great bodily harm, and if there are no witnesses, you get to off someone, scot free.

What a bizarre *********** law.

 

[triforcharity]

Then get a clue.

Goodbye.

So, you're saying a hispanic could never hate another race or ethnicity?

Blacks could never hate whites?

 

[Mumbles]

And they can bridge the gap using Zimmerman's activism in the beating of Sherman Ware at the hands of the son of a SPD lieutenant tied in with whatever the hell Serino did to get reassigned to overnight patrol.

Well, it's true that this is of no real relevance, but am I the only one that finds the story of Zimmerman's one-man crusade for justice for Sherman Ware...just a bit far-fetched? Yes, I know, his own father claimed that he was interested when the NAACP wasn't, and that he was handing out flyers at some church or another.

But when you look into the actual story, you find that outrage was unsurprisingly widespread, and, well...

Tooley's retirement happened after Sanford police met with members of Seminole County's chapter of the NAACP, who are demanding more oversight of the department.

...

The NAACP asked for the public meeting, and a number of people were in the audience, including Sherman Ware's sister. She told WFTV her brother doesn't remember the beating he took on December 4.

Note that the above is a news report from January 3rd, 2011, before the meeting where Zimmerman delivered a short speech, and shortly after local news shows discovered the video of Justin Collison beating Sherman Ware from behind.

Seems like Zimmerman is, yet again, embellishing the truth.