Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Cylinder]

No DNA foreign to TM on his hands and fingernails.

None on his cuffs or lower sleeves.

Hard thing to overcome, with such a bloody wreck as GZ was, after all.

You really need to re-examine the DNA report. There's no record of Martin's hands being tested. You're referring to the fingernail scrapings.

 

[Cylinder]

I would assume that even if there was one drop, it would have been photographed.

Unfortunately, there were intermittent showers that would have made trace blood hard to find on the concrete. Given better weather and a good CST (Smith seemed fairly thorough - though there was no mention in reports of an attempt to locate blood evidence from the scene itself), we could have fairly easily cleared the issue of where Zimmerman's head hit the concrete up.

 

[triforcharity]

It was in the autopsy report.

Ok, figured. I don't believe it has anything to do DIRECTLY with a person being right or left handed, but could. But, it said that 70% of people are right flow dominant, and only about 10-20% of people are left handed, so there MAY be a correlation, but I don't know honestly.

 

[triforcharity]

The real problem with claiming that there is no head injury between fine and skull fracture is that it will be inside the common experience of everyone. It's so common, in fact, that we've assigned it a slang term - having your bell rung.

Any state medical expert that challenges Zimmerman's wounds will also have to testify that it is not uncommon for closed head trauma to cause death. They will also have to testify that wounds of the type that Zimmerman suffered is high-risk of causing loss of consciousness. Grave bodily injury includes loss of consciousness.

Which GZ never claimed to have experienced, nor did he show any signs of having an altered LOC. Alert and Aware x's 4.

 

[bookworm]

Last evening at the baseball field, I saw two different kids get hit in the head with a baseball. One of them had a huge lump and the other one didn't have a mark on him. I wonder why? How could that be?

 

[triforcharity]

Unfortunately, there were intermittent showers that would have made trace blood hard to find on the concrete. Given better weather and a good CST (Smith seemed fairly thorough - though there was no mention in reports of an attempt to locate blood evidence from the scene itself), we could have fairly easily cleared the issue of where Zimmerman's head hit the concrete up.

Certainly plausible. One drop of blood, especially considering all the foot traffic that would have been through there before the CSI began his photographs, it's quite possible it would have been stepped on, washed away, etc.

Also, finding blood on grass can be very difficult. A Luminol test would have been the easiest, but even in grass, would be difficult.

Cheers!

 

[bookworm]

What does your analysis suggest?
Would you go for 45 seconds of concrete and 15 seconds of grass?

I think the treadmill example probably shows George didn't fall and get his injuries, since his injuries were less severe than the guy who fell. On the other hand, it's hard to compare what I assume was a glancing blow to more direct, blunt force trauma. I'd want to see an animated reconstruction to be sure.

I hope the old guy is OK. George grew a whole new head of hair because of his injury. Miracles do happen.

This is a good point. I've heard people (can't remember if it was here or not) say they think Z got his wounds from falling not from TM hitting his head on the ground. I think this could rule that out.

 

[Cylinder]

Which GZ never claimed to have experienced, nor did he show any signs of having an altered LOC. Alert and Aware x's 4.

Right, but Zimmerman is allowed to act in prevention of GBI. That threat is magnified by the weapon retention issue. Zimmerman is also allowed to act in prevention of a forcible felony - namely aggravated battery - whose threshold is also an attack that is likely to cause GBI.

 

[triforcharity]

Last evening at the baseball field, I saw two different kids get hit in the head with a baseball. One of them had a huge lump and the other one didn't have a mark on him. I wonder why? How could that be?

A baseball is round and doesn't have pointy edges, hence, it's round, fairly soft in comparison to concrete, and when struck against a moving object, will move also, and lose much of it's kinetic energy.

Concrete, however, doesn't do much moving once it's in sidewalk form.....

Stupid ****, really stupid ****** **** like this. Are you SERIOUSLY wondering why a ball didn't break open a skull? Not that it CAN'T, and even a batted ball can kill people.....

******* incredible.

 

[Cylinder]

Also, finding blood on grass can be very difficult.

x10 in the rain, as anyone who has experience tracking wounded deer can attest.

 

[triforcharity]

This is a good point. I've heard people (can't remember if it was here or not) say they think Z got his wounds from falling not from TM hitting his head on the ground. I think this could rule that out.

If that evidence was available, it would rule out nothing, unless there were large puddles and splatter of blood.

 

[triforcharity]

Right, but Zimmerman is allowed to act in prevention of GBI. That threat is magnified by the weapon retention issue. Zimmerman is also allowed to act in prevention of a forcible felony - namely aggravated battery - whose threshold is also an attack that is likely to cause GBI.

I understand that completely. I just wanted to make the point that GZ suffered no LOC, or even an altered LOC.

 

[bookworm]

A baseball is round and doesn't have pointy edges, hence, it's round, fairly soft in comparison to concrete, and when struck against a moving object, will move also, and lose much of it's kinetic energy.

Concrete, however, doesn't do much moving once it's in sidewalk form.....

Stupid ****, really stupid ****** **** like this. Are you SERIOUSLY wondering why a ball didn't break open a skull? Not that it CAN'T, and even a batted ball can kill people.....

******* incredible.

Exactly my point about stupid posts contemplating whether or not a person can or can't get a wound from one thing or another. Every head is different, all force is different, all surfaces are different. Totally unbelievable that someone could have a problem figuring this out.

 

[bookworm]

If that evidence was available, it would rule out nothing, unless there were large puddles and splatter of blood.

Exactly. Speculating about this stuff is pointless.

 

[triforcharity]

Exactly my point about stupid posts contemplating whether or not a person can or can't get a wound from one thing or another. Every head is different, all force is different, all surfaces are different. Totally unbelievable that someone could have a problem figuring this out.

Wow, you really don't follow along, do you sir/ma'am?

 

[Cylinder]

Zimmerman bond hearing - Round 2 Hour 2

 

[bookworm]

Wow, you really don't follow along, do you sir/ma'am?

I've been following along just fine, thank you. Take the old man falling example. 2 old men, exactly the same circumstances, except one of them put his arm out and caught the ground. Are they going to have the same wounds?

Incredible the bias here. No problem with the old man falling post, but a problem with the baseballs.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Wow, you really don't follow along, do you sir/ma'am?

I think they follow along just fine, and his/her initial sarcastic point about the baseball was obvious and spot on.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

No DNA foreign to TM on his hands and fingernails.

None on his cuffs or lower sleeves.

Hard thing to overcome, with such a bloody wreck as GZ was, after all.

You really need to re-examine the DNA report. There's no record of Martin's hands being tested. You're referring to the fingernail scrapings.

If you keep repeating something long enough, it becomes the truth, I guess.

Please, someone address where TM hands were tested so we can all know that they didn't have blood on them ....

We have much of the evidence the state has - where is it in the discovery ? Specifically.

 

[Unabogie]

Wow, you really don't follow along, do you sir/ma'am?

In fairness, all I wanted to do was relate an experience that eerily reminded me of this case. There I was, watching a person suffer a single fall and end up with a wound that looked like this same stupid cut we keep arguing about. What it says to me is that the cut on George's head could be the result of a fall, and not bashing. I don't think it PROVES anything, other than this: George's cuts are not proof of bashing. They could have come from simply falling at some point. In fact, in his first version of events, that's exactly what he claims happened.

So what could be the truth? He tried to grab Trayvon, Trayvon hit him, he fell, hit his head, and then set off chasing him to where they ended up. And from that point, there would not have to be smothering or bashing to explain the injuries.

Can I prove that? No, but it fits the evidence better than George's unbelievable story.