General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[LemmyCaution]

You know, 5+ pages into a google search on the lady and all I find "refuting" her story is a bunch of incredulity on denier sites, and colour me suspicious, but that's not proof the lady lied. Of course I will also be asking for specific examples of the hate speech she allegedly spreads, and how this meets the accepted legal definition of hate speech.

Look for Joachim Neander's article on Zisblatt. It's been discussed here, in the previous thread, quite a bit. There is no doubt in my mind that Zisblatt has presented an inaccurate and dishonest story of her life.

 

[TSR]

Look for Joachim Neander's article on Zisblatt. It's been discussed here, in the previous thread, quite a bit. There is no doubt in my mind that Zisblatt has presented an inaccurate and dishonest story of her life.

That would be here.

Please note the difference between this deconstruction of her story vs. the denier approach, which can best be summed up as "Bwhahahahahaha"

 

[A'isha]

I'm still mystified at the Denier idea that if they can just prove that a handful of people have lied about their own personal experiences, they will have proven that the entire Holocaust is a hoax without having to address, y'know, the entire body of existing documentary, archaeological, and historiographical evidence showing otherwise.

It's like claiming the entire Vietnam War never actually happened and is really a big hoax, because this site documents a whole bunch of people who lied about having served during the war.

 

[Belz...]

Millions of American school children are learning holohoax history with education packages provided by proven liars and propagandists like Steven Spielberg and his USC Shoah Foundation. Evil liar Irene Zisblatt is also doing her bit to educate America’s children and regularly tours schools giving lectures designed to poison the minds of the young with vile anti-Gentile hatred. I personally regard this old hag as a child molester, and am appalled that school authorities actually invite her into their classrooms.

Ordinarily I would expect people to be upset by these types of revelations. However, in the short time I have been here JREF I have learned most of its membership are nothing more than mindless conformists, therefore, I doubt there will be much of a reaction. Even so I will risk asking some questions:

1. Does anyone here agree that Spielberg should be stripped of the Oscar he won for The Last Days?

2. Should Spielberg’s USC Shoah Foundation be allowed to supply its propaganda to public schools?

3. Should proven liars like Irene Zisblatt be allowed to give lectures to school children?

Blah blah blah. Demonstrate that the holocaust is a hoax before going on about how wrong it is to talk about it.

 

[LemmyCaution]

That would be here.

Please note the difference between this deconstruction of her story vs. the denier approach, which can best be summed up as "Bwhahahahahaha"

Exactly. Neander uses what is known about the period to understand Zisblatt's story - and in turn Zisblatt's story (with its misinformation) to reiterate his understanding of the period. Oh, and Neander uses sources.

 

[Belz...]

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 0 and 12 removed.

I will not give the Jews the opportunity to blackmail or threaten anyone before my work is safely in print.

I told you guys it was it. Antisemitism, the only source of holocaust denial.

Now, why do you hate Jews, Chuck ?

 

[Charles Traynor]

Dr. Neander:

An intelligent reader, however, who has read some scholarly literature about Auschwitz and Neuengamme, as well as one or more memoirs of undisputed survivors of these camps, and uses common sense cannot but question the authenticity and credibility of Mrs. Zisblatt's memoir.

TSR, read it and weep.

 

[Charles Traynor]

I'm still mystified at the Denier idea that if they can just prove that a handful of people have lied about their own personal experiences, they will have proven that the entire Holocaust is a hoax without having to address, y'know, the entire body of existing documentary, archaeological, and historiographical evidence showing otherwise.

When have revisionists said that? You are attempting to build a strawman.

 

[000063]

Dr. Neander:




TSR, read it and weep.

Except that what Neander uses is historical information known about the Holocaust. The same Holocaust you decry as a "holohoax". You are willing to believe in Neander's analysis, but not the greater body of evidence used to make that analysis. That's a contradiction in terms.

It's also telling that the debunkers had to find it for you. You've been ranting about this woman for a while now, and never posted a link.

 

[TSR]

TSR, read it and weep.

Weep about what? I am fully aware of the contents of that page -- I don't tend to blindly post links without have read them and checked what sources seem appropriate.

So, you have one person, lying about personal experiences. I never claimed anything different.

But this means exactly *what* in terms of the historicity of the Holocaust?

Okay, I'll see you Zisblatt, and raise you the Director of the Technical Disinfection Service of the Waffen SS, Kurt Gerstein -- you know, one of those non-Jewish eyewitnesses you claim don't exist?

He testified

I prayed with them and cried out to my God and theirs. How glad I should have been to go into the gas chambers with them! How gladly I should have died the same death as theirs! Then an SS officer in uniform would have been found in the gas chambers. People would have believed it was an accident and the story would have been buried and forgotten. But I could not do this yet. I felt I must not succumb to the temptation to die with these people. I now knew a great deal about these murders.

Cue tap dance in 3, 2, 1 ....

 

[Border Reiver]

That would be here.

Please note the difference between this deconstruction of her story vs. the denier approach, which can best be summed up as "Bwhahahahahaha"

Thanks for the link.

After reading it, it would definitely appear that Ms. Zisblatt has fabricated her story. Taht being said, it was not a denier, but rather a legitimate historian who did so, and through using a far more exhaustive measure than "Didn't happen."

It is also apparent that this does absolutely nothing to refute the historical reality of the holocaust and crushing weight of evidence that supports it. Just because someone falsely claims association with an event, doesn't invalidate the reality of the event.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Weep about what? I am fully aware of the contents of that page -- I don't tend to blindly post links without have read them and checked what sources seem appropriate.

So, you have one person, lying about personal experiences. I never claimed anything different.

But this means exactly *what* in terms of the historicity of the Holocaust?

Okay, I'll see you Zisblatt, and raise you the Director of the Technical Disinfection Service of the Waffen SS, Kurt Gerstein -- you know, one of those non-Jewish eyewitnesses you claim don't exist?

He testified



Cue tap dance in 3, 2, 1 ....

Let's also add in another non-existent non-Jewish eyewitness, this one to the mass slaughter by bullets in the occupied east, Kazimierz Sakowicz.

Tap-dancing continues?

 

[Charles Traynor]

Weep about what? I am fully aware of the contents of that page -- I don't tend to blindly post links without have read them and checked what sources seem appropriate.

So, you have one person, lying about personal experiences. I never claimed anything different.

But this means exactly *what* in terms of the historicity of the Holocaust?

Okay, I'll see you Zisblatt, and raise you the Director of the Technical Disinfection Service of the Waffen SS, Kurt Gerstein -- you know, one of those non-Jewish eyewitnesses you claim don't exist?

He testified



Cue tap dance in 3, 2, 1 ....

This would be the same Kurt Gerstein who died in very mysterious circumstances whilst a prisoner of the Allies.

Which of the many versions of the alleged statement do you consider to be genuine?

Which of the many versions of the alleged statement do you wish to discuss here?

 

[thedopefishlives]

This would be the same Kurt Gerstein who died in very mysterious circumstances whilst a prisoner of the Allies.

Which of the many versions of the alleged statement do you consider to be genuine?

Which of the many versions of the alleged statement do you wish to discuss here?

How many of those versions can you identify that are not misrepresentations or falsehoods from your denier friends?

 

[LemmyCaution]

This would be the same Kurt Gerstein who died in very mysterious circumstances whilst a prisoner of the Allies.

Which of the many versions of the alleged statement do you consider to be genuine?

Which of the many versions of the alleged statement do you wish to discuss here?

Sakowicz, Mr Traynor. Sakowicz.

 

[LemmyCaution]

You are insane you actually think I’d give a cultist like you that kind of sensitive information. I will not give the Jews the opportunity to blackmail or threaten anyone before my work is safely in print.

I am sure, that if "the Jews" get together, and if "the Jews" want a good laugh, they will do everything they can to expedite the release of your Reporr and get it disseminated. This is a very painful topic, and the sort of comic relief you provide is good every once in a while.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Charles Traynor is here to collect the JREF's contribution of the Judenvermögensabgabe. Having absorbed such academic works as Luther's treatise of 1543 entitled, "On the Jews and their lies" he will almost certainly wish to conduct an educative National Socialist political lecture upon the matter with us.

Will beers be served? Will there be a photographic slideshow of the "Parking Lots of Death Camps"? Will there be reflections on the ethnography of Poland? Will there be commentary on Israeli visitor groups to Birkenau?

 

[nomuse]

I'm sure he will too.


You are insane you actually think I’d give a cultist like you that kind of sensitive information. I will not give the Jews the opportunity to blackmail or threaten anyone before my work is safely in print.

Ah, yes. Because we are all Jews here, and you know we Jews have connections.

 

[nomuse]

I'm still mystified at the Denier idea that if they can just prove that a handful of people have lied about their own personal experiences, they will have proven that the entire Holocaust is a hoax without having to address, y'know, the entire body of existing documentary, archaeological, and historiographical evidence showing otherwise.

It's like claiming the entire Vietnam War never actually happened and is really a big hoax, because this site documents a whole bunch of people who lied about having served during the war.

But don't forget a few odd NVA colonels -- who were obviously coerced to lie about it, they being prisoners of war...

 

[nomuse]

The game's afoot!

Heh. I knew people here would catch that one.