Supreme Court Health Care Decision Thread

[Tony]

Depends on whether or not you ask people if they like "Obamacare" or if they like the benefits of Obamacare.

In other words, conservatives have demonized the name "Obamacare", but have been unable to actually change opinions on the substance of the law, even among Republicans.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Ugh, I think they made a mistake but then again I think the supreme court has been of it's rocker for a long time.

But really if we are going to have a "health care law" let's please get rid of this horrible overregulated piece of garbage they have created. This isn't going to make anything better in the long run. I'm pretty hardcore but if we are going to have a nationalized system we should just go ahead and be done with it by making it single payer. I don't think this half assed stuff is a good idea at all. Either completely privatize and deregulate (my preference) or move to single payer PUH-LEASE!

 

[RandFan]

...the Democrats have not done a good job countering that 'death panel' lie.

And Democrats have not done a good job explaining that lack of health care is seriously harming people.

A health care 'Judas' recounts his conversion

Thousands of them had lined up under a cloudy sky in an open field. Many had camped out the night before. When their turns came, doctors treated them in animal stalls and on gurneys placed on rain-soaked sidewalks.

They were Americans who needed basic medical care. Potter had driven to the Wise County Fairgrounds in Virginia in July 2007 after reading that a group called Remote Area Medical, which flew American doctors to remote Third World villages, was hosting a free outdoor clinic.

 

[Brainster]

Obama's most significant achievement is ruled a tax increase on poor and middle-income Americans.

 

[Polaris]

Doesn't seem like a big turnout of protestors based on that photo. And I love the blonde blithering idiot with the sign and the Mothman shirt. SCOTUS disagrees with you, *****!

 

[casebro]

Now the REAL political sparring starts, as the parties tune up the 2500 pages of gobbldygook.

2-3 years for the reality to surface through the sludge we've been fed the last couple years. Revenue neutral? Death panels? Rationing- where & how ? Rates, up or down?

I suspect Health Care Laws will be a growth sector of the political scene for years and years.

 

[BenBurch]

What an charmingly even-handed rational answer. I don't like you but I do respect you.

Well, I kinda like you.

Just don't go all Gaspard over it. https://twitter.com/patrickgaspard/status/218347872163344386

I kinda like you too.

 

[BenBurch]

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/AlKrh.jpg[/qimg]

OMFSM. That was worth the price of admission.

 

[JamesDillon]

Outside of conservative fantasies, did it ever mean anything? At one time or another, America has had a government that enslaved people based on race, put them in camps based on nationality, criminalized criticism of the government, forced women to carry children they didn't want, forcibly sterilized people, censored information, censored pornography, fined people for saying "bad" words, forced people to pray, forbade what chemicals or drugs people can ingest, forced people into military service. I can go on and on.

But noooo, it only is NOW. When government has reformed healthcare (for good or ill) that "limited and enumerated powers" means nothing.

Most of those examples are either false or fall readily within Congress's enumerated powers. Slavery was always a matter of state law, and the Constitution expressly permitted the maintenance of slavery in the South. Congress certainly has the authority to prescribe punishments for violation of federal criminal statutes, and even if forcible sterilization violated the Fifth or Eighth Amendments, it certainly was within Congress's enumerated power to authorize criminal punishment. To the extent that federal laws like the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act regulate medical procedures, it's hard to see how that isn't within the Commerce Clause power, certainly as it's been construed for nearly a century (and to the best of my recollection, no one ever argued that that act was beyond Congress's enumerated powers; only that it violated due process). Regulation of drugs seems to come pretty clearly within even a reasonably narrow reading of the Commerce Clause. Congress is also specifically authorized to "raise and support Armies"; some argue, I think not implausibly, that the draft exceeds that authority, but it is at least a debatable point. I'm not aware of Congress ever forcing anyone to pray; maybe Congresspeople themselves are a captive audience to the chaplain's invocations, but as far as I'm aware they're free to skip those sessions without reprisal. As to your other examples, sure, they probably exceeded Congress's enumerated power, but the Alien and Sedition Acts and Japanese internment were both one-off historical events, hardly indicative of a general lack of restraint over Congress's constitutional authority.

 

[grunion]

Depends on whether or not you ask people if they like "Obamacare" or if they like the benefits of Obamacare.

source Most Americans oppose President Barack Obama's healthcare reform even though they strongly support most of its provisions, Reuters/Ipsos poll showed on Sunday, with the Supreme Court set to rule within days on whether the law should stand.

Fifty-six percent of people are against the healthcare overhaul and 44 percent favor it, according to the online poll conducted from Tuesday through Saturday.

* Eighty percent of Republicans favor “creating an insurance pool where small businesses and uninsured have access to insurance exchanges to take advantage of large group pricing benefits.” That’s backed by 75 percent of independents. [...]
* Fifty two percent of Republicans favor “allowing children to stay on parents insurance until age 26.” That’s backed by 69 percent of independents.
* Seventy eight percent of Republicans support “banning insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions; 86 percent of Republicans favor “banning insurance companies from cancelling policies because a person becomes ill.” Those are backed by 82 percent of independents and 87 percent of independents.
* One provision that isn’t backed by a majority of Republicans: The one “expanding Medicaid to families with incomes less than $30,000 per year.”

...and 100% of Republican Presidential Candidates support (and have institutionalized) the majority of these provisions. But heavens, "Obamacare" is evil.

 

[crimresearch]

They may well be right about that. The mandate is still massively unpopular, and now that it's been clearly identified as a tax the conservatives can plausibly claim that Obama broke his pledge to impose no new taxes on middle-class families. I'm not sure how much of a boost Obama can hope for from a victory in favor of a widely unpopular law.

Obama didn't make this new tax... The Supreme Court did... LOL!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

In other words, conservatives have demonized the name "Obamacare", but have been unable to actually change opinions on the substance of the law, even among Republicans.

"Been unable" suggests they tried. The Republics don't want people to consider the actual provisions in the AHCA. The whole idea of calling it Obamacare is to prevent people from considering the facts.

 

[Puppycow]

Before the decision was announced Romney promised to "stop it" on day one of his presidency:

Romney told supporters in Virginia the same day: "If Obamacare is not deemed constitutional, then the first three and a half years of this president's term will have been wasted on something that has not helped the American people."

Romney, whose opposition to the law has been a rallying cry on the stump, continued: "If it is deemed to stand, then I'll tell you one thing. Then we'll have to have a president -- and I'm that one -- that's gonna get rid of Obamacare. We're gonna stop it on day one."

 

[Brown]

President Barack Obama, April 2012:

Ultimately, I am confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected Congress....

Chief Justice John Roberts, June 2012:

Our permissive reading of these powers is explained in part by a general reticence to invalidate the acts of the Nation's elected leaders. "Proper respect for a co-ordinate branch of the government" requires that we strike down an Act of Congress only if "the lack of constitutional authority to pass [the] act in question is clearly demonstrated."

The President's remarks were discussed here.

 

[BenBurch]

Obama's most significant achievement is ruled a tax increase on poor and middle-income Americans.

You and Palin need to get a room!

 

[BenBurch]

"Been unable" suggests they tried. The Republics don't want people to consider the actual provisions in the AHCA. The whole idea of calling it Obamacare is to prevent people from considering the facts.

Good observation!

 

[Vorticity]

I'm shocked. Shocked. I was absolutely positive, and said so many times here, that the mandate would be struck down in a purely political 5-4 party-lines decision. I really would have bet almost anything on it.

The ACA is a terrible, hacked-together, mishmosh of a legislation. The only thing that can be said for it is that it is head and shoulders above the cruel, deadly, and nonfunctional system we have without it. So I'm glad to see it stay... for now.

Now if only we could put together a proper national health system like civilized countries have.

 

[crimresearch]

Before the decision was announced Romney promised to "stop it" on day one of his presidency:

Day one, hmmm?

Right after he fires all judges, suspends the 13th and 14th amendments and the Civil Rights Act by fiat, forces the rest of the world into fealty with nuclear strikes, and so on?

What's he going to do with the rest of his first week?

 

[RandFan]

I'm shocked. Shocked. I was absolutely positive, and said so many times here, that the mandate would be struck down in a purely political 5-4 party-lines decision. I really would have bet almost anything on it.

The ACA is a terrible, hacked-together, mishmosh of a legislation. The only thing that can be said for it is that it is head and shoulders above the cruel, deadly, and nonfunctional system we have without it. So I'm glad to see it stay... for now.

Now if only we could put together a proper national health system like civilized countries have.

Amen my brother.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Oh, the irony.

How is that ironic? Being able to read is not the same thing as being able to read something that hadn't been published yet.

I put that in there as an admission that my preliminary analysis could be wrong because I hadn't read it yet.

There's no irony there.