German court bans circumcision of young boys

Orphia Nay

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Orphia Nay
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-28/german-court-bans-circumcision-of-young-boys/4096998

Jewish and Muslim groups have protested after a German court banned the circumcision of young boys for religious reasons, in the first ruling of its kind in the country. ... However, the ruling, which applies only to the Cologne area, said boys who consciously decided to be circumcised could have the operation. ... According to the court ruling, "the fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity outweighs the fundamental rights of the parents".

"The child's body is permanently and irreparably changed by the circumcision. This change runs counter to the interests of the child, who can decide his religious affiliation himself later in life," it said.
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Well done, Cologne court! Hopefully this sets a precedent elsewhere.

The Central Council of Jews in Germany called the ruling an "unprecedented and dramatic intrusion" of the right to religious freedom, and an "outrageous and insensitive" act.

"Circumcision for young boys is a solid component of the Jewish religion and has been practised worldwide for millennia. This religious right is respected in every country around the world," president Dieter Graumann said in a statement.
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Appeal to emotion fallacy; Appeal to antiquity fallacy; Appeal to popularity fallacy. :oldroll: Three strikes and you're out.

Female genital mutilation is forbidden across Germany.
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Why isn't male circumcision called male genital mutilation? I think I'll start calling it that.
 
oh no... fasten your seat-belts.... you think Norwegian baby foreskins could be a 15 page topic..... just wait till people hear about German baby foreskins.
 
Caper said:
oh no... fasten your seat-belts.... you think Norwegian baby foreskins could be a 15 page topic..... just wait till people hear about German baby foreskins.
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You think it'll stretch further?
 
Orphia Nay said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-28/german-court-bans-circumcision-of-young-boys/4096998Why isn't male circumcision called male genital mutilation? I think I'll start calling it that.
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Because a lot of people don't like to hear that they are mutilating their children, that they silently stand by when others mutilate their children or that the laws of the land allow the mutilation of children.

Also, in past discussions, I have often heard the accusation that calling male circumcision mutilation would somehow make female circumcision (Ha!) more acceptable or lessen the perception of how horrible a practice it is.

See if you can have a tattoo on your baby, though...
 
Well done Germany!

It'll be interesting if this gets challenged. Is a possible scenario that an appeal fails, therefore goes to next highest court and eventually ends up in European Court? If then upheld there, could it be argued to apply across Europe?

That would be a fantastically ironic result if it was challenged!
 
Eddie Dane said:
Maybe they can switch to tongue piercings.
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Somehow I doubt you'll find anyone who'd happily advocate that it was okay to pierce the tongue of an infant, or tattoo them ... because that would be cruel, and forever alter the bodily appearance of the child, and the baby would be in pain and bleeding, ...
 
Orphia Nay said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-28/german-court-bans-circumcision-of-young-boys/4096998
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You're late!! This was mentioned in the Norway debates banning male circumcision thread already. And there's Finland too.
I see a thread merge ahead.

Orphia Nay said:
Well done, Cologne court! Hopefully this sets a precedent elsewhere.
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Hopefully.

Orphia Nay said:
Appeal to emotion fallacy; Appeal to antiquity fallacy; Appeal to popularity fallacy. :oldroll: Three strikes and you're out.
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Yeah there's a lot of that around. Just see the Norway thread......

Orphia Nay said:
Why isn't male circumcision called male genital mutilation? I think I'll start calling it that.
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It is. However proponents don't like the idea.

rjh01 said:
I wonder what the German Jews will do now?
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Given that not all Jewish sects require circumcision, and the practice has changed over the years, perhaps they'll adapt.
Or not.
 
Given that not all Jewish sects require circumcision, and the practice has changed over the years, perhaps they'll adapt.
Or not.
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They'll probably do as the Muslims do -- Illegal "underground procedures", or "vacations" to other countries.
 
rjh01 said:
I wonder what the German Jews will do now?
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Not a direct analogy but it's now illegal in the UK to dock dogs' tails unless they are a working dog which specifically needs it (for some spurious reason). Amazingly, a lot of show dogs in breeds where docking has historically been done are working dogs who have to have their tails docked. Who'da guessed :rolleyes:

I imagine that circumcision will be allowed where there is a medical necessity for the procedure to be carried out. A large proportion of people in religious and/or ethnic groups where circumcision is the norm will find doctors who will certify that the circumcision of their boy is a medical necessity.
 
The Don said:
I imagine that circumcision will be allowed where there is a medical necessity for the procedure to be carried out. A large proportion of people in religious and/or ethnic groups where circumcision is the norm will find doctors who will certify that the circumcision of their boy is a medical necessity.
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What medical necessity could there be?
 
The Don said:
A large proportion of people in religious and/or ethnic groups where circumcision is the norm will find doctors who will certify that the circumcision of their boy is a medical necessity.
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... which will sooner or late invite malpractice suits. Good.
 
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