Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Cylinder]

Those things aren't even in the same universe as everyone overlooking blood on M's hands.

But there's no evidence that Martin did not have blood on his hands. There's no record of visible blood in the ME report. There's also a mechanism for any blood to have been removed. We have no record of any trace test being done on Martin's hands.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Those things aren't even in the same universe as everyone overlooking blood on M's hands.

How come you don't answer my simple questions ?

Do you know " I believe/I don't believe" aren't very good arguments ?

 

[crimresearch]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/26/223357/828

Jeralyn's latest comments...

"...To be justified in using deadly force, Zimmerman had to be in fear when he shot Trayvon, not when he got out of his car. At the point in time that he shot Trayvon, Zimmerman only had to reasonably fear serious bodily injury or death from Trayvon's use of force against him. The danger he perceived need not be real, he just had to believe it was real, and his belief had to be reasonable"

Hmmmm... I like the way this jeralyn thinks.

What do they do for living?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

But Serino moves from lead detective on the biggest case in SPD history to overnight partol duty for??? Luckily, this particular feline has escaped its cylindrical storage device. Serino was also the detective that interviewed DeeDee, so I suspect MOM will make some inquiries of his own.

What a CF this evening. I don't think @mattgutmanabc gets to call do over

BDLR interviewed deedee, I don't believe Serino spoke with her.

 

[Cylinder]

What a CF this evening. I don't think @mattgutmanabc gets to call do over

BDLR interviewed deedee, I don't believe Serino spoke with her.

Sorry - I was trying to work from memory. I'll have to listen to the interview again. Thanks for spotting that for me.

Mea Culpa (or at least a provisional one)

 

[Unabogie]

The AP is reporting the same thing: http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20120626/ff7cc9df-e94f-48ab-9c13-d01d5bcf41f3

It's still old. It's been discussed here quite a bit

 

[WildCat]

It's still old. It's been discussed here quite a bit

Do NW guidelines tell you to talk to people you find suspicious?

 

[This is The End]

I assumed that rational people would either understand those fundamental examples of how the law works, or go look it up themselves to see if what I said matches.

As far as those who are simply fabricating things that were never said... that isn't exactly breaking news around here, is it?

OK which is it, is the prosecution having to prove that M did not go for the gun central to the case or not? You can't have it both ways.

This is a direct question. Please answer it.

Other people are saying that Z's credibility can be damaged. As far as I understand it, you are saying that doesn't matter at al. That they must have proof that M didn't go for the gun. You've said this about 50 times in this thread, not just in that post.

 

[This is The End]

But there's no evidence that Martin did not have blood on his hands. There's no record of visible blood in the ME report. There's also a mechanism for any blood to have been removed. We have no record of any trace test being done on Martin's hands.

I'm not convinced that a few minutes of light rain can remove blood from hands.

 

[This is The End]

How come you don't answer my simple questions ?

Do you know " I believe/I don't believe" aren't very good arguments ?

That's weird because this ended when you admitted that you think it is possible that everyone completely missed blood being on M's hands.

You think it is possible, I don't. It can't get much simpler than that.

ETA: If this post from 4 pages ago when you first started asking your questions doesn't answer them I don't know what will:

It would be noted by someone. If not, it would be one of the most unbelievable errors imaginable.

 

[This is The End]

"...To be justified in using deadly force, Zimmerman had to be in fear when he shot Trayvon, not when he got out of his car. At the point in time that he shot Trayvon, Zimmerman only had to reasonably fear serious bodily injury or death from Trayvon's use of force against him. The danger he perceived need not be real, he just had to believe it was real, and his belief had to be reasonable"

Hmmmm... I like the way this jeralyn thinks.

What do they do for living?

Yeah but the key question is, can Z's story and credibility be broken apart or is the requirement, like you claimed earlier, that the prosecution has to find specific proof that it didn't happen?

Did you or did you not claim that the prosecution has to have specific proof that M did not go for Z's gun? And that no amount of evidence showing Z to be lying about the night matters?

 

[This is The End]

Do NW guidelines tell you to talk to people you find suspicious?

Why are you asking people here to defend the opinion of a Tribune article??

 

[Unabogie]

Do NW guidelines tell you to talk to people you find suspicious?

You posted this as if it's new. I merely corrected you. Serino was pointing out that George acted recklessly, and did not avail hiself of opportunities to avoid violence, which is why he pushed for manslaughter. Corey is taking it further, IMO because George was so untruthful.

 

[GWCarver]

There is no straw man. You posted the exact words I quoted, so hiding behind that made up claim does nothing.

Dead body and shooter, equals evidence (not proof) that 'a crime has been committed', and that satisfies the capias requirements as spelled out in the law and in the court rulings posted here many times.

Your claim of 'no evidence' is patently false, and your attempt to drag in things that the defendant might use *later* in his defense, is irrelevant. That isn't the prosecution's duty at *that* stage of the game.

I said there was compelling evidence that Zimmerman didn't commit a crime, and that is true. I don't care when it is used. If you wish, you can go through each line item and explain individually why each one isn't evidence that supports Zimmerman's innocence or lack of guilt.

You say a body and a shooter are evidence of a crime. What crime? Pull one out of thin air, fill out the charge space with whatever one feels like, then describe in the body of the Capias what you had for lunch? Will that suffice? When that cop shot the naked cannibal a couple of weeks ago, there was a body and a shooter. That would be evidence of a crime, according to you. What was the cop charged with?

Shooting and killing someone in self-defense is not a crime, as long as the shooting is righteous, so having a body and a shooter in a case doesn't necessarily constitute a crime, or evidence of a crime. It is evidence of a homicide, not a crime. I'll ask again - please copy and paste the relevant portions of the unredacted Capias in which Serino describes Zimmerman committing a crime. In this case, it would specifically be manslaughter. If you can't do it, just admit it. Jeralyn Merritt has said there is no crime described in the redacted version of the Capias, and I see nothing in the unredacted version that changes that.



_______________________
Hey, Only Tells Truth. I see you are kidding me in another post by saying something about my getting scooped. I don't plan on bringing things like that over here anymore, so I'm always going to be scooped. We've been talking about the Serino/Gutman connection elsewhere tonight. There are those in here who wish to remain in the dark about certain parts of the case that I think are very important, so in the future I will do my best to help them stay there.

 

[triforcharity]

I'm not convinced that a few minutes of light rain can remove blood from hands.

Not likely, but possible. It would need to be raining pretty damn hard for the rain to wash his hands clean, IMO.

 

[Cylinder]

I guess the other question raised is how Martin's own blood gets under his fingernails without it being on his hands. I guess one could argue that the blood was present pre-mortem, but both Zimmerman and Martin ended up with each other's blood. I guess you'd want to know how the fingernails presented themselves - was it an obvious amount under them or was it trace amounts found?

Certainly I wouldn't expect Martin's hands to be wrist-deep in blood.

 

[Cylinder]

What SPD actually has around the time of the 3/5 count is two empties and 6 live rounds. One fired by GZ and one fired by FDLE.

Apparently, no count at the scene is documented.

You're right. I guess the proximity to the Tracy Martin voice ID made think the round count report was more contemporaneous. Good catch.

 

[Mumbles]

You posted this as if it's new. I merely corrected you. Serino was pointing out that George acted recklessly, and did not avail hiself of opportunities to avoid violence, which is why he pushed for manslaughter. Corey is taking it further, IMO because George was so untruthful.

I think that the other part to this is that the girl Trayvon was on the phone with at the time gives an account that lines up with the evidence far better than Zimmerman's walk through and statements do. Her description of Martin spotting Zimmerman staring at him, of Martin walking past, and eventually running, fit with Zimmerman's own police phone call pretty well. Her explanation that Martin was scared by Zimmerman pretty well explains why he ran around the corner. And her description of their exchange, and of Martin dropping his phone, explain how they got that far down the pathway, and why Martin's phone was found in the grass - and as I recall, she didn't have much of any way of knowing that part at the time (I could be mistaken on that).

 

[Cylinder]

Police Video of Zimmerman Shows no Sign of Scuffle

About 2:45, Gutman claims the video came through official channels:

It was rather simple to obtain. All we had to do is ask for it and wait a couple of days. The police were quite helpful so I think they perhaps want to be rid of this story [that SPD and Wolfinger conspired to decline charges] and show they did due dillegence.

As documented quite nicely by another website, this isn't an official copy - it's a video recording of a playback device.

 

[This is The End]

There are those in here who wish to remain in the dark about certain parts of the case that I think are very important, so in the future I will do my best to help them stay there.

GWCarver please don't do that! We want to hear about anything just as long as it has at least some merit or basis. I doubt anything purely racist (for example) would have either.