Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

It would? How so?

I imagine if he carried at about 4-5 o'clock as he seemed to show by patting his right hip in the walk through, he would have to roll on his side a little to reach his weapon. It wouldn't be as easy as if, say, no one was on top of him pummeling him.

By the way, did you notice in George's walkthrough he didn't get down on his knees, but instead crouched? Maybe that was just to keep his pants clean, but as Rare Truth noted, he seems to catch on when his story is veering off to neverland and adjusts himself accordingly.

Or maybe it was his arthritis, or maybe it was because no one told him to keep going and get down on the ground. Speculation for the reason abounds.

But I'm curious, if his story is that he was straddled while grabbing the gun, how does that match the evidence of him actually managing this feat, when it would be obviously so much easier if Trayvon had backed off him before he reached down for it?

Because there are witnesses that saw them in that position right before the gunshot. Because that is what GZ claims. The forensics of a contact shot and angle, etc all seem to be consistent with GZ story.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

No, but it may make Serino more or less credible, as a reflection of how well he did his job ? Is leaking to the media in his job description ? Or does that reflect a possible agenda ?

His agenda is putting killers away?

Funny how this could destroy his credibility but George and his lovely wife's Peter Pan adventure must be viewed as separate and of no bearing as to believing his version of what happened that night.

Why don't you compare the hilited things I wrote, and the hilited things you wrote, and take another stab at a response ?

 

[crimresearch]

Yes, I actually read the post you quoted. And if you think my response makes it "quite clear that I didn't", than it's clear you didn't understand crimresearch's post in the first place.

No, that's not the claim being made, nor did he say no other evidence can apply, and frankly it's amazing that's what you read out of what he said. Why don't you show us where he said either of those things in the above post? It's also obvious he assumed people could fill in the blank spaces for themselves, and understand the context of the situation rather than thinking in absolutes.

I assumed that rational people would either understand those fundamental examples of how the law works, or go look it up themselves to see if what I said matches.

As far as those who are simply fabricating things that were never said... that isn't exactly breaking news around here, is it?

 

[triforcharity]

I'm surprised that nobody else picked up on this. It could explain why George is hanging around the Tee for so long after he hangs up with the operator.

Something that should be answerable is whether the door chime we hear indicates that the keys were in the ignition or if it only signals that something was amiss like the headlights being on. Also, is the key an integral part of the remote dongle and if separate, does the evidence log indicate if there's was actually a key on the ring.

I would venture to say that a newer model Honda Ridgeline would have automatic lights, but they could be an override feature like on my Malibu. This would cause the ding when opening the doors if the lights were still on.

Or, he could have left his key in the ignition, however, based on the evidence collected at the scene, it was not left in the ignition.

Since this wouldn't be JREF without a CT angle, could keys instead be referring to kilos and is that why he then stops directing the cops to where his truck is but talks about the back gate and calls his wife to immediately pick up his truck before it gets trapped in the crime scene and she performs that task instead of coming to comfort her injured baby.

No, he's really bad at talking in code....so.....

 

[WildCat]

Perhaps they mean that, instead of stalking M suspiciously, Z could have said something like:

"Hello, my name is G.Z. and I am with the neighborhood watch. I don't remember seeing you around here before. Do you need any help finding someone?"

Is that standard NW procedure for confronting suspicious persons?

 

[WildCat]

Unlikely that SPD would not count the rounds in the pistol until 3/5...

Didn't the police report released ages ago show that the rounds were counted at the scene?

 

[triforcharity]

I've seen it measures with google-maps tools at being around 40 feet.

It certainly is a good distance from the area GZ describes in his initial statements.

[qimg]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/who007/tm-body.jpg[/qimg]

I found a good video to use that has aerial photos, and maps each item using the evidence photos and aerial photos to line them up.

I would guess that the distance from the T to the body's final resting place to be about 30', if the expansion joints are cut at 5'

Here's the video.


Start about :55 in to see where I get the 30' from.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I found a good video to use that has aerial photos, and maps each item using the evidence photos and aerial photos to line them up.

I would guess that the distance from the T to the body's final resting place to be about 30', if the expansion joints are cut at 5'

Here's the video.


Start about :55 in to see where I get the 30' from.

Upon first watching, it seems reasonable to me. I didn't observe any glaring discrepancies or obvious inaccuracies. Good job was done to try to account for all objects that could be placed.

 

[LTC8K6]

Didn't the police report released ages ago show that the rounds were counted at the scene?

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

Page 20.

"On 03/05/12 I was asked to check the round count for the recovered firearm..."

Maybe it's a recount, but I don't think so. They wouldn't have been doing a second investigation yet.

 

[crimresearch]

Kidding aside, it does seem as though it would be difficult to pull a gun out of a holster and shoot someone that is straddling you. Can one of the knowledgeable gun owners comment on that? I should note that it seems to me as though it would be even more difficult if the person straddling you was fighting you for it or actually aware you even had it. In other words, if it is possible, might that suggest TM was beating on him without being aware GZ even had or was going for a gun? That seems to me that it would also help explain why GZ was screaming and getting his ass handed to him, only to suddenly be able to end it with a shot. My assumption was always that TM did not know he had the gun.

It wouldn't be impossible, but it could be done.

 

[LTC8K6]

It looks like they had to reconstruct the round count from photographs of the crime scene because FDLE had used the pistol for testing on 3/1, and fired one of the rounds that was in the magazine.

 

[Cylinder]

It looks like they had to reconstruct the round count from photographs of the crime scene because FDLE had used the pistol for testing on 3/1, and fired one of the rounds that was in the magazine.

That must have been during the time the firearm was in FDLE custody, becuase they were specific in their report about what was received, what was used and what was returned.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

If you guys follow @mattgutmanABC, he's spilling the beans on Serino as his SPD source. This can cause the state some troubles as well at trial. Gutman was the ABC source of the "non-injured" Zimmerman at the sally port.

He is unspilling them now:

@YancyFaith #TrayvonMartin #Zimmerman to be clear: I'd never reveal a source. The response earlier was 2 another tweeter abt something else!

 

[LTC8K6]

That must have been during the time the firearm was in FDLE custody, becuase they were specific in their report about what was received, what was used and what was returned.

What SPD actually has around the time of the 3/5 count is two empties and 6 live rounds. One fired by GZ and one fired by FDLE.

Apparently, no count at the scene is documented.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/26/223357/828

Jeralyn's latest comments...

 

[Cylinder]

He is unspilling them now:

@YancyFaith #TrayvonMartin #Zimmerman to be clear: I'd never reveal a source. The response earlier was 2 another tweeter abt something else!

But Serino moves from lead detective on the biggest case in SPD history to overnight partol duty for??? Luckily, this particular feline has escaped its cylindrical storage device. Serino was also the detective that interviewed DeeDee, so I suspect MOM will make some inquiries of his own.

 

[This is The End]

I find it really unlikely that the SPD would not secure GZ car.

I find it really unlikely that the SPD couldn't agree on the pants the victim was wearing.

I find it really unlikely that the SPD would not give GZ a breathalyzer or drug test.

Yet ... those things happened despite my belief.

Those things aren't even in the same universe as everyone overlooking blood on M's hands.

 

[Cylinder]

What SPD actually has around the time of the 3/5 count is two empties and 6 live rounds. One fired by GZ and one fired by FDLE.

Apparently, no count at the scene is documented.

I haven't re-read the reports to track the firearm, so I'll defer to you.

Interesting find, though. I was attributing the claim that Zimmerman shot Martin twice to the "two shot" witnesses. I guess they kind of pissed their pants when they figured out they had reports of two shots fired and two spent casings. Pretty funny stuff.

 

[WildCat]

Yeah, that's very old.

The AP is reporting the same thing: http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20120626/ff7cc9df-e94f-48ab-9c13-d01d5bcf41f3

 

[This is The End]

Yes, I actually read the post you quoted. And if you think my response makes it "quite clear that I didn't", than it's clear you didn't understand crimresearch's post in the first place.

No, that's not the claim being made, nor did he say no other evidence can apply, and frankly it's amazing that's what you read out of what he said. Why don't you show us where he said either of those things in the above post? It's also obvious he assumed people could fill in the blank spaces for themselves, and understand the context of the situation rather than thinking in absolutes.

Sorry you're still completely wrong. Read crims post:

If someone takes your 9mm out of your inside the waist band holster, and pulls the trigger from a few inches away, it is reasonable to believe that you are going to get hurt or killed.

If someone is on top of you punching you, and they move one hand down as if to take said 9mm, it is reasonable to believe that they are going to pull the trigger should they get it in their hand.

The prosecution, when all is said and done, is going to have to provide proof that not only the jury, but the judge and any possible appeals court will accept that this never happened. They can't just just spin wild mind reading accusations about GZ's secret plot to commit murder, they must show actual proof... of a negative.
Unless they've got something up their sleeve, it is going to be hard to reach that standard inside the court room, where they can't use the sort of faked evidence that is flying all over the internet.

If that was true then nearly every murderer in the country could just say "they were on top of me and going for my gun".

Unless you are claiming we have something besides Z's word that show's that M was supposedly going for Z's gun.....

This claim is:

"The prosecution will have to provide proof that M did not go for Z's gun."

In other words, even if Z is proven to fabricate large portions of his story, it still won't matter unless they can somehow prove a negative.

Crims exact words to that effect:

they must show actual proof... of a negative

Of a negative is clearly refering to "and they move one hand down as if to take said 9mm". Crim has made the claim many times in this thread that it has nothing to do with the fight, and everything to do with M reaching for the gun.

So, do you deny that is crims claim? If so, please clarify it.

OH and the part you edited out where I say the exact same thing you do about other evidence....

ETA: Unless, of course, you are agreeing with me, and that other evidence can apply. crim was specifically saying that no other evidence can apply. All that matters is that the prosecution cannot prove the specific event of: "they went for the gun". That is the claim being made.

...and the other part you edited out. I'd love to hear your take on the video. If you could take some time off of trying to play gotcha, and discuss the video that would be awesome.

ETA: NBS since you are here and you clearly want to discuss something, did you watch the video from post #484?