Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[This is The End]

I agree, I would just hate for this to go to CT.

You're seriously agreeing that there is any significant amount of conspiracy theory going on in this thread???

This isn't a court room this is the JREF discussion forum.

I, for one, like to hear peoples opinions and ideas, no matter how silly some of you may deem them (the opinions and ideas) to be.

There has been many a crazy turn in this case, I would seriously doubt that is going to stop.

There haven't been many ideas posted here that are crazier than the stunt Z plotted for his previous bond hearing!

If you see someone post something that is factually incorrect, then by all means, quote it, say it is incorrect, and then most importantly post the truth with cites.

Don't just go "oh it's been posted a thousand times before". Most people are not seriously reading a 15,000 post thread in its entirety every day.

Ridiculing people (including calling them conspiracy theorists) for throwing ideas at the wall is exactly opposite to how we should compose ourselves here.

 

[This is The End]

Johnny, I think I'll wait for you to address Cylinder first before I respond.

Surely if there was any blood on M's hands we would have seen it somewhere in the document dumps...

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I used inprecise language there as well.

It makes no difference really since Martin was in the rolled-over position at the time the casing was found.

The body had been removed when the casing was found. Of course, Ceisla was refering to the position of the body before it was removed.

Your language was fine. The casing may or may not have been underneath where the body had lain after it was rolled over. What we have so far does not clearly indicate whether it was or was not. It may have been under the body after the body was rolled over. As you say, it makes no real difference, other than dispelling the notion that somehow TM was shot and his body fell onto the casing.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Surely if there was any blood on M's hands we would have seen it somewhere in the document dumps...

Surely you can direct me to where they documented the condition of TMs hands and the swabs they took of them ?

 

[This is The End]

Surely you can direct me to where they documented the condition of TMs hands and the swabs they took of them ?

I believe you are mis-understanding me. I am asking if you agree that it is very unlikely that blood on M's hands would have went unnoticed.

I should not have said just in the current document dump if it is incomplete.

Would blood on Ms hands going un-noticed not be un-fathomable?

 

[Unabogie]

I believe the witnesses original statement, not what they may say after people change their minds for them. That witness said Martin was beating the crap out of Zimmerman. (Not those exact words.)

No, I find that curious myself. The blood and wounds are there though, so it happened somehow.

Does that apply to George too? So he says he went straight down when he was hit. Or is there a second standard for him?

 

[Amazer]

The standard is already discussed in this thread, a 'reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death'.

I got that, thanks. I'm just trying to understand what in this particular case would form the ingredients in making that assessment.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I believe you are mis-understanding me. I am asking if you agree that it is very unlikely that blood on M's hands would have went unnoticed.

I should not have said just in the current document dump if it is incomplete.

Would blood on Ms hands going un-noticed not be un-fathomable?

Do you mean unnoticed by the ME ? LEOs ?

Again, I don't know how much blood is supposed to be on his hands, and how much of it is supposed to be visible after a few hours of being in the rain and the wet grass. And I don't see where they described his hands as clean, bloody, or otherwise.

So, if understand your question, it is not un-fathomable.

It seems they found GZ blood under his fingernails, on his sweatshirt , etc -i.e. - where they swabbed.

 

[LTC8K6]

It's about 30 feet down the T to the second utility cover, and that's about where we see TM's body. TM had been rolled over a couple times by then, apparently. So, I would say the end of the incident was probably about 25 feet down the T.

 

[This is The End]

Why things just don't add up George.

Zimmerman Re-enactment Video w. Notes pt. 1 (inc. comparisons to police call)



A video worth looking at:

I suggest everyone interested watch this if you haven't already.

Many of these are inconsistencies that are to be expected, but all of them?

This is exactly the type of stuff the prosecution is going to try and get in front of the jury at trial.

This is also exactly the type of stuff that can get a jury to (improperly) ignore jury instructions.

 

[bookworm]

This is W-11 in her interview with SPD:



Apparently Zimmerman wasn't the only one who thought it strange to have foot traffic that night.

People also need to remember that it wasn't a warm summer rain either. It was very cold outside in addition to the rain.

 

[This is The End]

Do you mean unnoticed by the ME ? LEOs ?

I'm not sure why you are making a distinction.

By everyone down the line who would have a chance to document it.

So, if understand your question, it is not un-fathomable.

Well I have to disagree in the wording.

I would have to say that blood on M's hands going unnoticed by everyone would be extremely unlikely.

and how much of it is supposed to be visible after a few hours of being in the rain and the wet grass.

"A few hours"??? Are you suggesting that blood does not stain skin within minutes?

I suppose rain could wash blood off, but for how long did it rain after the gunshot, if at all? As for the wet grass, I'm not following how that could wash it off....

 

[Unabogie]

It's about 30 feet down the T to the second utility cover, and that's about where we see TM's body. TM had been rolled over a couple times by then, apparently. So, I would say the end of the incident was probably about 25 feet down the T.

I posted links to how wide the homes are. I posted pictures. Can you cite your numbers, please? I do not accept your conclusions yet.

 

[bookworm]

Does that apply to George too? So he says he went straight down when he was hit. Or is there a second standard for him?

That applies to George, too. I give more credence to what he immediately said. See how easy that was for me? I don't seem to see the people who immediately judged George to be a racist, cold-blooded murderer giving even an inch when new information comes to light.

For example, so far, no documentation that any swabs were even done on TM's hands. Also, the body laying for 2 hours before the ME arrived, in the rain. No documentation seen that his hands were bagged......has any of that altered your views about TM not having any blood on his hands?

 

[LTC8K6]

I posted links to how wide the homes are. I posted pictures. Can you cite your numbers, please? I do not accept your conclusions yet.

I should have said from the keys to the body is about 35 feet.

Assuming the fight begins about where the keys were found.

Of course, as I have said before, it's entirely possible that the keys went flying, and don't really indicate anything about where the first punch was thrown.

I really don't think GZ has a problem with the distance from the T to the body.

 

[LTC8K6]

"The keys are in my truck"???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn6ji1A7C6o&feature=relmfu

 

[Rare Truth]

...
"A few hours"??? Are you suggesting that blood does not stain skin within minutes?

I suppose rain could wash blood off, but for how long did it rain after the gunshot, if at all? As for the wet grass, I'm not following how that could wash it off....

TM's body was covered by with a yellow police emergency tarp within minutes of being pronounced dead.

 

[This is The End]

Also, the body laying for 2 hours before the ME arrived, in the rain.

First of all, I already asked this, but was it even raining that much after the gunshot? You make it sound like it rained solid for hours that night...

Second of all, wasn't the body covered up?

 

[Rare Truth]

I suggest everyone interested watch this if you haven't already.

Many of these are inconsistencies that are to be expected, but all of them?

This is exactly the type of stuff the prosecution is going to try and get in front of the jury at trial.

This is also exactly the type of stuff that can get a jury to (improperly) ignore jury instructions.

Thank you. I'm glad you took the time to look at it. That's exactly why I posted it - because it is these many glaring inconsistencies that will no doubt be presented to the jury.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I'm not sure why you are making a distinction.
By everyone down the line who would have a chance to document it.

So who documented the condition of hands ? Anyone ?

Well I have to disagree in the wording.
I would have to say that blood on M's hands going unnoticed by everyone would be extremely unlikely.

So, is your contention that since no one noted 'bloody hands' in in some kind of report, that is proof there was no blood on the hands ?

"A few hours"??? Are you suggesting that blood does not stain skin within minutes?

I suppose rain could wash blood off, but for how long did it rain after the gunshot, if at all? As for the wet grass, I'm not following how that could wash it off....

I am not suggesting anything ... I am saying I don't know how much blood is supposed to be on his hands, and how much of it is supposed to be visible after being in the rain and the wet grass.

And I don't see where they described his hands as clean, bloody, or otherwise. Where is that ?