Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

[...]
Now, look at GZ's face, and look at these ones. Which one appears to have been in a more severe fight?

What's next ? Here is what a real rape vitim looks like ?

 

[LTC8K6]

Does anyone else remember O'Mara countering that line of questioning with asking if they were aware that Zimmerman went to the doctor the next day? I could have sworn OM said he was going to hand over documents showing that Zimmerman's nose was actually broken, when he went to the doctor the next day.

The nose being broken or not is irrelevant, imo.

The prosecution is likely not even interested in GZ's injuries beyond the fact that he actually has some, which they already knew.

 

[sgtbaker]

That interview the night of the incident, he tells Singleton at one point (or maybe it was the stress test guy...) that his nose was blocked, yet he sounded the same in all the interviews, tone-wise.

Block your nose right now and talk out of it.

How different do you sound?

Did you listen for the whistle, though? You can hear it. I am going to have to listen to the interviews to find what he said but I would venture to guess his nose feels stuffy, like one would when it is swollen.

 

[BenBurch]

The only way his injuries could possibly matter is if they were of a character such that one who received them would believe them to be possibly fatal as they were being received. Otherwise, they do nothing to exonerate him.

 

[triforcharity]

LOL

I want one!

Me too!!

/OT

 

[triforcharity]

What's next ? Here is what a real rape vitim looks like ?

I didn't say "real" you did.

Which one appears to have been in a more severe fight?

GZ

Victim 1

Victim 2


You choose one.

 

[Rare Truth]

Does anyone else remember O'Mara countering that line of questioning with asking if they were aware that Zimmerman went to the doctor the next day? I could have sworn OM said he was going to hand over documents showing that Zimmerman's nose was actually broken, when he went to the doctor the next day.

All we have is ""We discussed it was likely a broken nose with no septal deviation..."

That's not a firm diagnosis.

But who knows?

Could be.

It took quite a beating.

 

[Unabogie]

A good punch can make you stagger backwards a few steps.

Right, which is what George originally claims. But if he's hit from the south, and falls north, then staggering backwards a few steps just puts him even further from where the body ended up. Plus, in his first interview, he went straight down. No staggering.

GZ might not have been exactly at the T.

So he wasn't on his way back to his truck?

TM may have pushed GZ, or they may have struggled on the ground, moving south.

He demonstrated is as him "stumbling" while swinging his hands and being on his feet. He seemed to not know how to explain it, but it definitely wasn't rolling all the way there.

The distances are not totally out of line with an encounter roughly as GZ described.

He says he went straight down, so there ought to be NO distance, right?

TM's body was rolled over as well.

This still wouldn't account for why he's so far south when he was hit, staggered back a few steps, then went down. Does his later explanation make sense to you?

 

[Rare Truth]

Did you listen for the whistle, though? You can hear it. I am going to have to listen to the interviews to find what he said but I would venture to guess his nose feels stuffy, like one would when it is swollen.

When my nose is even stuffy...*hold nose to make the sound* I talk different.

Don't you?

 

[triforcharity]

Did you listen for the whistle, though? You can hear it. I am going to have to listen to the interviews to find what he said but I would venture to guess his nose feels stuffy, like one would when it is swollen.

I agree. There is a slight whistle. I have no doubt that his nose was broken. Not a SEVERE break, with severe septal deviation, but certainly broken, and in pain.

 

[Dancing David]

Now that the bulk of the posters here are either asserting or debunking wild conspiracy theories on a massive coverup scale, will the mods please move it to CT where it belongs?

Please don't, there are those of us who just ignore the chaff that gets generated when there is nothing else to discuss. Now if there are specific derails you would like split, that would be great.

 

[Unabogie]

By the way, we keep guessing about how far south he ended up. It's at least one or two houses down. According to this map, it's behind the third house.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-M...an-Trayvon-Martin-Gated-Communities-and-Fear/

First off, how wide is one of those homes?

You'd have the distance from the sidewalk to the first house, then the width of that house times however many homes there were before the body. I wonder if getting us all in agreement on that distance may sway people one way or the other on his story about staggering to where the body ended up? Anyone care to give it a stab and share you work?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

That interview the night of the incident, he tells Singleton at one point (or maybe it was the stress test guy...) that his nose was blocked, yet he sounded the same in all the interviews, tone-wise.

Block your nose right now and talk out of it.

How different do you sound?

So let me see if I understand this bit of deductive reasoning. GZ said his nose felt blocked, and you're convinced of what exactly, because you don't think his voice sounds different in that interview? And if I follow your line of reasoning, you'd like us all to "block" our noses and observe that our voices sound different, in order to prove that GZ's nose was not blocked, because of course, feeling like your nose is blocked is going to have the same affect on your voice as holding your fingers over your nose and actually blocking your nasal passages. Maybe the prosecutor will use this line of attack in his cross.

Hey do me a favor, would you? I think we may be onto something here. As you are talking, wiggle the front of your nose with your fingers really fast between your thumb and your finger, and note what happens to your voice. Once you have done so report back, and I'll have you move to the next step of the nose investigation process.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Some things I have learned in this thread.

1a. That is TM screaming on the 911 calls as he's about to be murdered in cold blood.
1b. But if it's GZ screaming, which it's not, it's irrelevant and has no bearing.

2a. GZ likely self-inflicted his wounds.
2b. But if GZ didn't self-inflict his wounds, which he did, they really aren't that bad anyway. (I actually agree they aren't that bad, it's the inanity of ever feeling the need to deny they occurred as part of the confrontation that is bizarre)

3a. GZ chased TM down.
3b. But if he didn't chase TM down, which he did, he still had no business getting out of the car and trying to see where he went. The moment he got out of the car he became "physically involved".

4a. GZ attacked TM.
4b. But if TM attacked GZ, which he didn't, GZ deserved it and TM was just defending himself.

I've seen this type of reasoning overwhelmingly on one side, but in fairness it plays out on both. For instance:

5a. GZ has shown no propensity for lying or deceiving.
5b. GZ may have shown a propensity for deceiving at the bond hearing but that doesn't mean he is deceiving about the shooting. (while technically true, I don't see how anyone cannot concede we've observed a willingness to deceive at this point)

Anyhow, it seems to me that in all of those scenarios if it's one and not the other, it should result in a substantial re-balancing and reevaluation of what happened. If you can start at "a" and then move to "b" with no impact on your evaluation, than you're operating in the realm of religious belief, and facts are irrelevant to you.

 

[Unabogie]

Here's an interesting fact. One of the townhomes is for sale, so we can look here (while this ad is up) and get some clues as to the width of a single townhome.

http://www.weichert.com/43140010/?cityid=45572&maxpr=270&type=new&view=map&ldview=ldsummary

Judging from these photos, I'd say it's about 10' from the sidewalk to the side of the house.

The living room is minimum 16'. The garage looks about the same, so let's say 30'.

I can't tell if there's space between the houses or if they are common wall.

If Trayvon was found in back of the second house (not even the third) let's say right in the middle of the back yard of the second house, that's:

10'
30'
15'

For a total of 55' from the T to the middle of the second townhome.

If he was found in the back yard of the first home, that's minimum 25'.

Does everyone agree on my numbers?

Here's one map I found, but I'd like to get the exact spot his body was.

http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg

EDIT: (in case they take the ad down)

Room Size
Bedroom 12X10
Bedroom 12X10
Kitchen 14X06
Living Room 16X15
Master Bedroom 17X12

 

[tsig]

Is that the bitches name? (She might end up being worse than Faye WRT: rainfall totals)



I would agree, but I didn't see that.

My only point was, as I am sure you remember, is that a minor drizzle in Florida will not prevent people from being out, in general. It is not suspicious in any sense of the word. It's not uncommon.

(As an aside, I just saw my 85 y/o neighbor walk down the street with his little dog, and it's drizzling outside.)

Was he wearing a hoodie?

 

[Unabogie]

Ok, I knew this was around here somewhere. John, witness #6 said the fight happened directly behind his house.

http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/witmap470.jpg

This puts him half way down from the edge of his house.

So this means it's
10' for the grass
30' for the first house.
15' to the middle of the second house.

For George to have stumbled there, he'd have needed to stumble 55 feet.

Anyone think that makes sense?

 

[triforcharity]

Was he wearing a hoodie?

I sure hope not, he's 85. It was a Members Only jacket...

 

[crimresearch]

The only way his injuries could possibly matter is if they were of a character such that one who received them would believe them to be possibly fatal as they were being received. Otherwise, they do nothing to exonerate him.

'Possibly fatal' isnt the legal standard, and is irrelevant in any case.

The conspiracy drum being beaten is that Zimmerman lied about having *any* injuries, therefore he is automatically guilty of cold blooded, unprovoked murder.

'No blood, no lacerations, no broken nose'.

The fact that he did have injuries will go to support his reasonable belief later... it won't *prove* it, but it does work for it, not against it.

 

[Unabogie]

I sure hope not, he's 85. It was a Members Only jacket...

Criminal!

So do you agree with my numbers up above? I'm trying to get a sanity check on that. Did George have to "stumble" 55 feet to get to where he shot Trayvon? If so, how can that square with his initial story of being hit once and then falling down immediately?