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Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

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TheL8Elvis said:
I don't understand why you are having a problem following this. You made a claim. I asked you to back it up. More than once.

Your response, in part, was:

So I posted 12698 and put you on ignore. How is that hard to follow ?

I took you off ignore this morning, and am still waiting for you to provide a cite that states the cartridge was found under the body.
You haven't.

I posted two pictures, one of which you posted to demonstrate GZ story was inaccurate and asked you which one best describes what you think happened.
Again, you didn't answer.
Click to expand...
So you asked me to back up evidence of Z's "contradictory statements to police the night of the shooting is part of the reason why the lead homicide detective found probable cause to charge him in the first place. "


more than once...? I can't find anything more than that one request, which at the time seemed ludicrous to me, given we KNEW at the time Serino made a capias request, and we had been discussing ad infinitum the many conflicts we KNEW at that point so far....but let's say you did --

you wanted me to back up THIS:contradictory statements to police the night of the shooting is part of the reason why the lead homicide detective found probable cause to charge him in the first place.
and then one minute later you put me on ignore? OOOOOOOOOOOkay. lol

As for your second demand for back up. I assumed you had read the report.
That's a given. Not my fault you missed it.

Nor that you missed the reply TO YOU, just a few minutes ago, from Cylinder, on that matter - which included the portion of the detective's report. Guess you missed that as well.
Quote:
After a visual search of the area failed to turn up the cartridge, I got the metal detector and began to scan the area where the victim had lain. I did one sweep of the area with negative results and then reset the sensitivity of the metal detector. As I started again I heard a strong tone and looked in the area. I did not see anything so I marked the area and instructed CST smith to check the area again visually and I moved on. Before I got to the end of the sweep CST Smith told me she had found [the] casing just inches from where I had placed the marker.
Click to expand...
Last point: You're false dichotomy challenge. Which picture most closely resembles Z's statement?
 
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TheL8Elvis said:
That works for me, or close enough. A 'savage beating' is in the eye of the beholder.
If things went as you described, it is as has been claimed numerous times - an unlucky combination of events gone terribly wrong that ended in the unfortunate death of a young man.
Click to expand...

(I know you've got me on ignore, but.....)

If someone punches another person 30 times, including 3 times directly to the face, slams their head into the concrete numerous times, and tries to smother them, I would consider that savage, as would just about any ration person.....



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Since I haven't really followed this thread since GZ's bond was revoked due to his lying (Which, as I predicted in the old thread would happen), does anyone have a link to GZ's claim of being punched 30 times? I'd like to see that. (Especially considering my position that his injuries do not add up to what he claims)

Also, any pictures that show GZ's injuries, or reports from SFD WRT: GZ's injuries would be cool too.

Cheers!
 
Bob001 said:
I think we all get that GZ had the sense not to call the cops and say "I see black people!" What he did do is see black people and conclude that they were suspicious. He saw TM walking down the street at 7 p.m., and told police that he was "a suspicious guy... looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs .... just walking around and looking about." It would be interesting to know how many, if any, of GZ's calls resulted in arrests, or even any direct contacts between police and GZ's "suspects." And if it was as crime-ridden as you say, it sounds like the Neighborhood Watch wasn't very effective. It wouldn't have cost much to install some cameras at the community access points, or even locked gates with passcard access.

And if GZ wasn't paying rent to somebody who was not the owner, was he paying it to somebody who was? Or did he expect a free ride?
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He saw TM in the side yard, not 'walking down the street'.

402 calls sounds crime ridden. And the neighborhood watch was just recently established, we have no information on its efficacy.

They have cameras. They have gates.

Your post is very ignorant of the facts.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html
The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.
 
triforcharity said:
(I know you've got me on ignore, but.....)

If someone punches another person 30 times, including 3 times directly to the face, slams their head into the concrete numerous times, and tries to smother them, I would consider that savage, as would just about any ration person.....



-------------------------------------------------

Since I haven't really followed this thread since GZ's bond was revoked due to his lying (Which, as I predicted in the old thread would happen), does anyone have a link to GZ's claim of being punched 30 times? I'd like to see that. (Especially considering my position that his injuries do not add up to what he claims)

Also, any pictures that show GZ's injuries, or reports from SFD WRT: GZ's injuries would be cool too.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Here's the full frontal below-head a few hours after the brutal beat down:

DSC_0072-1.jpg
 
Here's the broken and traumatized punched punched punched nose:

Z-nose.jpg


I'll try and find the cite for the 30 X. It was in one of Serino's interviews.
 
Yes, before we had GZ statements I wanted you to provide evidence that you knew they charged him because of contradictory statements. I still don't see materially contradictory statements that support murder 2.

Rare Truth said:
[...]
and then one minute later you put me on ignore? OOOOOOOOOOOkay. lol
Click to expand...

I put you on after you told me you weren't going to back up your claims. I posted the quote from you. Really, it's not hard to follow.

Rare Truth said:
As for your second demand for back up. I assumed you had read the report.
Click to expand...

Since I quoted it in my response, that would be a good assumption. :rolleyes:

Rare Truth said:
That's a given. Not my fault you missed it.
Click to expand...

I missed it ... but I quoted the exact same part as you. :rolleyes:

Rare Truth said:
Nor that you missed the reply TO YOU, just a few minutes ago, from Cylinder, on that matter - which included the portion of the detective's report. Guess you missed that as well.
Click to expand...

Highlight the part that demonstrates the cartridge was underneath the body, please:

After a visual search of the area failed to turn up the cartridge, I got the metal detector and began to scan the area where the victim had lain. I did one sweep of the area with negative results and then reset the sensitivity of the metal detector. As I started again I heard a strong tone and looked in the area. I did not see anything so I marked the area and instructed CST smith to check the area again visually and I moved on. Before I got to the end of the sweep CST Smith told me she had found [the] casing just inches from where I had placed the marker.​

Rare Truth said:
Last point: You're false dichotomy challenge. Which picture most closely resembles Z's statement?
Click to expand...

The first picture is how it happened.

You really like avoiding answering. You don't believe the first picture is accurate. So....

If you don't believe the second picture is accurate, please, don't feel like you have only two options. Tell us what position you think they were in when GZ shot TM.
 
Unabogie said:
There was at least one witness who saw George walking away with his hands on his head. And I don't know where you established that he had less than one minute in order to do this, but it would take only ten seconds.

He looks down, sees the people around him, it's dark, he says "oh crap, what did I just do?" and panics and marks up his own face with his hands.

Is there proof of that? No, of course not. But it would explain the blood not being anywhere on Trayvon. Is it impossible? No. Would George lie? I think we've established pretty well that he will. So can this be discounted? No. Can it be considered truth? No.

But it's not a CT, since it's just about whether or no an admitted killer and known liar would quickly scratch his own head after killing someone to embellish his own narrative. You know, like claiming he never followed the kid, or claiming unbelievable dialogue, etc, etc.
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I remember seeing police photos of Zimmerman showing his hands. Was there blood under the fingernails? If not, I think we can eliminate the scratching his own head.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
He saw TM in the side yard, not 'walking down the street'.

402 calls sounds crime ridden. And the neighborhood watch was just recently established, we have no information on its efficacy.

They have cameras. They have gates.

Your post is very ignorant of the facts.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html
The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.
Click to expand...
Makes you wonder why in this Breaking News report that was LIVE on the scene on the 8 O'clock news (less than 45 minutes after the shooting,) we see a cop saying how unusual it is for this area.

"We generally don't get any calls in this area. If so, it's maybe a loud music call or something like that." -Sanford Policeman, on the scene

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/022612-Deadly-shooting-in-Sanford
 
bookworm said:
I remember seeing police photos of Zimmerman showing his hands. Was there blood under the fingernails? If not, I think we can eliminate the scratching his own head.
Click to expand...

In that one recording from the EMT, he said he cursorily cleaned up his hands in order to check for other wounds. He had his own blood on his hands, yes. I don't know if he had any of Trayvon's, but I think Cylinder has a link to the autopsy that said he did. He seems to have a bunch of this bookmarked, so maybe he can help clear this up.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Yes, before we had GZ statements I wanted you to provide evidence that you knew they charged him because of contradictory statements. I still don't see materially contradictory statements that support murder 2.



I put you on after you told me you weren't going to back up your claims. I posted the quote from you. Really, it's not hard to follow.



Since I quoted it in my response, that would be a good assumption. :rolleyes:



I missed it ... but I quoted the exact same part as you. :rolleyes:



Highlight the part that demonstrates the cartridge was underneath the body, please:

After a visual search of the area failed to turn up the cartridge, I got the metal detector and began to scan the area where the victim had lain. I did one sweep of the area with negative results and then reset the sensitivity of the metal detector. As I started again I heard a strong tone and looked in the area. I did not see anything so I marked the area and instructed CST smith to check the area again visually and I moved on. Before I got to the end of the sweep CST Smith told me she had found [the] casing just inches from where I had placed the marker.​



The first picture is how it happened.

You really like avoiding answering. You don't believe the first picture is accurate. So....

If you don't believe the second picture is accurate, please, don't feel like you have only two options. Tell us what position you think they were in when GZ shot TM.
Click to expand...
Wow. Just wow.
 
 
Cylinder said:
By the way, who was it that referred this matter to a grand jury? What happened to that referral?
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I'm pretty sure the county called for the grand jury, and had it scheduled. They cancelled it before that date, I think, in deference to the state-appointed special prosecutor. (At first I thought Corey was going to file charges before the date of the grand jury, so that it would be moot, but I think they cancelled it, and she filed charges some time after the originally schedule grand jury date.)

ETA: Sorry if this has already been answered. I hadn't realized the continuation thread was already 9 pages long.
 
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http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/media response to motion to reconsider.pdf

The media wants W9 full release.

From Jeralyn:

The media has filed this motion seeking the second recorded conversation of Witness 9, whom the Orlando Sentinel identifies (correctly in my view) as Zimmerman's ex-girlfriend (the one who filed the restraining order.) The prosecutor identfied her by name at the bond hearing, and submitted exhibits with her name on them. Both sides have said she won't be a witness and her statements are inadmissible. (She and Zimmerman broke up in 2005.)

The media also wants all the jail calls released.
Click to expand...
 
Unabogie said:
In that one recording from the EMT, he said he cursorily cleaned up his hands in order to check for other wounds. He had his own blood on his hands, yes. I don't know if he had any of Trayvon's, but I think Cylinder has a link to the autopsy that said he did. He seems to have a bunch of this bookmarked, so maybe he can help clear this up.
Click to expand...

Well, I mean actually underneath the fingernails. But if what you say is correct then it's not impossible.
 
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