Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Rare Truth]

Maybe he said that to explain why he was found on top by some witness. But he said it and it does not match what the EMT saw.

Another thing about that: Z said he spread his hands apart because he thought TM had something in his hands as he was hitting him...

How does someone cover a mouth and nose, flat palmed, as GZ described - with "something in them?"

 

[Cylinder]

Another thing about that: Z said he spread his hands apart because he thought TM had something in his hands as he was hitting him...

How does someone cover a mouth and nose, flat palmed, as GZ described - with "something in them?"

Maybe Zimmerman thought wrong?

 

[Rare Truth]

Maybe Zimmerman thought wrong?

That was deduced from the very first post on this thread.

 

[marplots]

The position of the body is a little bit more important than whether the dead child was wearing jeans or khaki's.

Hang on, there was a dead child? Why haven't I heard about this?

 

[WildCat]

Make sure you don't forget either that if you do go in the bar instead of doing the smart thing and just staying outside and calling the police, (maybe because you want to make sure you are HEARING correctly) then end up getting attacked to the point where you kill someone to save your life, YOU are responsible for going in the bar and thereby physically involving yourself in the fight.

Holy crap, that actually makes sense to you? It's clear I'm arguing with someone whose beliefs regarding this case approach quasi-religious status. Just as a young earth creationist will wildly misinterpret well-understood geologic formations to fit his beliefs, you (and several others here) resort to a bizarre definition of a well-understood term to shoehorn it into your belief system.

Good luck with that!

 

[Rare Truth]

Hang on, there was a dead child? Why haven't I heard about this?

Ask the guy who saw his dead body.

“The child has no record at all, no violent tendencies,” said Sanford, Fla., Homicide Detective Chris Serino in a Feb. 29 interrogation three days after the shooting.


“This 17-year-old boy was one of those kids that would have been a success story. And I want to know — I guess everybody wants to know — what set him off?


“He’s not on PCP. He’s not on anything. He’s on Skittles.”


Zimmerman had no answer.​

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...rman-attorney-article-1.1100043#ixzz1yYOy8HaR
​

 

[crimresearch]

Make sure you don't forget either that if you do go in the bar instead of doing the smart thing and just staying outside and calling the police, (maybe because you want to make sure you are HEARING correctly) then end up getting attacked to the point where you kill someone to save your life, YOU are responsible for going in the bar and thereby physically involving yourself in the fight.

And you'll deserve to spend your life in prison for it, too.

Actually, calling on the phone to make reservations at the bar, would seem to fall into the category of 'initiated' according to some of the legal experts here... and thus deprive you of the right to save your own life later.

 

[Rare Truth]

Holy crap, that actually makes sense to you? It's clear I'm arguing with someone whose beliefs regarding this case approach quasi-religious status. Just as a young earth creationist will wildly misinterpret well-understood geologic formations to fit his beliefs, you (and several others here) resort to a bizarre definition of a well-understood term to shoehorn it into your belief system.

Good luck with that!

So perceptive he is, the Cat doesn't even recognize sarcasm.

 

[Rare Truth]

Actually, calling on the phone to make reservations at the bar, would seem to fall into the category of 'initiated' according to some of the legal experts here... and thus deprive you of the right to save your own life later.

This posts suggests you think Z making the phone call to police (and then letting LEO do their job) was not exactly what you're supposed to do when you spot someone you deem suspicious.

Besides that: it makes no sense.

 

[marplots]

Ask the guy who saw his dead body.

“The child has no record at all, no violent tendencies,” said Sanford, Fla., Homicide Detective Chris Serino in a Feb. 29 interrogation three days after the shooting.


“This 17-year-old boy was one of those kids that would have been a success story. And I want to know — I guess everybody wants to know — what set him off?


“He’s not on PCP. He’s not on anything. He’s on Skittles.”


Zimmerman had no answer.​

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...rman-attorney-article-1.1100043#ixzz1yYOy8HaR
​

OK, I get it. They didn't know at first how old he was and his small, child-like body had them thinking he was younger than 17. That should have been cleared up later on though. But I can understand how a detective might have made that mistake, what with TM's small stature and slight frame. And I understand that others have pointed out how the police may lie as part of their job.

Seems disingenuous to repeat it when we know differently now.

 

[Unabogie]

Page 14, report of Ayala, Ricardo.

I then noticed that there was what appeared to be a black male ... lying face down on the ground, The black male had his hands underneath his body... At that time, Sgt. Ralmondo and I turned the black male over And began CPR.

I don't know which witnesses said what about hands under or spread out.

In the audio recording of the EMT, he also refers to the hands being underneath Trayvon. I'm back at my desk now, so I can type a bit more freely than the iPad.

So your question is a good one. Why lie about something like that? It's clear that he told this story more than once about the body. But that's part of what you said bothers you about his lack of memory regarding HOW he got from Trayvon on top of him, straddling him (which I contend would preclude him going for his gun in a waistband) to George straddling Trayvon, which is how one of the witnesses found him. See, it's possible that Trayvon was on top for part of the fight, but George flipped him over and then shot him. Someone hears the shot, comes out, and George has to explain why he's on top after the shooting. What comes to his mind is that he shot, flipped the body, then attempted to "subdue" him. I don't think there are any witnesses to the actual shooting and who was on top at the time the gun went off, except George. And as we see, George has a really weird grasp of the truth. A really bad memory, and sees himself as some sort of cop.

Did you notice in his statement he repeatedly calls Trayvon "the suspect"? Who talks like that who isn't a cop?

 

[Cylinder]

You'll have to ask the now fired Chief Lee and the now Scarce SAG Wolfinger who overruled the lead homicide detective who wanted to arrest him.

You do realize that neither of those people actually made any decisions - or were even consulted - regarding releasing Zimmerman that night, right?

It was the 18th Circuit ASA that was on call that night who made that correct decision.

 

[Rare Truth]

OK, I get it. They didn't know at first how old he was and his small, child-like body had them thinking he was younger than 17. That should have been cleared up later on though. But I can understand how a detective might have made that mistake, what with TM's small stature and slight frame. And I understand that others have pointed out how the police may lie as part of their job.

Seems disingenuous to repeat it when we know differently now.

No. That statement came right after Serino giving GZ the stats of the boy, (recall, he'd only been 2 weeks past his 17th b'day) -- he told his full name, his date of birth, his build, his weight, his likes, his dislikes...

What was amazing to me, and I know many others now, that Z showed absolutely no remorse. None. Zilch. No concern at all for the life taken, even if he did everything Z said he did.

That, along with other facts of the story, get me to where the 'depraved mind' comes into the picture.

 

[Rare Truth]

In the audio recording of the EMT, he also refers to the hands being underneath Trayvon. I'm back at my desk now, so I can type a bit more freely than the iPad.

So your question is a good one. Why lie about something like that? It's clear that he told this story more than once about the body. But that's part of what you said bothers you about his lack of memory regarding HOW he got from Trayvon on top of him, straddling him (which I contend would preclude him going for his gun in a waistband) to George straddling Trayvon, which is how one of the witnesses found him. See, it's possible that Trayvon was on top for part of the fight, but George flipped him over and then shot him. Someone hears the shot, comes out, and George has to explain why he's on top after the shooting. What comes to his mind is that he shot, flipped the body, then attempted to "subdue" him. I don't think there are any witnesses to the actual shooting and who was on top at the time the gun went off, except George. And as we see, George has a really weird grasp of the truth. A really bad memory, and sees himself as some sort of cop.

Did you notice in his statement he repeatedly calls Trayvon "the suspect"? Who talks like that who isn't a cop?

^ THAT is an excellent post.

 

[Rare Truth]

You do realize that neither of those people actually made any decisions - or were even consulted - regarding releasing Zimmerman that night, right?

It was the 18th Circuit ASA that was on call that night who made that correct decision.

Doesn't change that after investigation, the lead homicide detective who wanted to arrest him.

I've concluded after seeing, hearing him, and reading what is available in the reports, Serino is a damn good detective, and he most certainly wasn't buying George's story.

That is clear.

 

[marplots]

These guys (http://www.wtsp.com/rss/article/247690/8/Pictures-in-Trayvon-Martin-case-shape-our-perception) say Martin was six feet tall and 160 pounds. That's pretty big for a child. I suppose that's why his guardians allowed the child to be out on his own at night.

At least it explains the impulsive attack on GZ. You can't expect a child to act as reasonably as an adult would. The impulse control simply isn't there yet. I'm not sure I buy the framing of a child-like mind in an adult-sized body as a complete explanation, but it does sound possible.

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[crimresearch]

You do realize that neither of those people actually made any decisions - or were even consulted - regarding releasing Zimmerman that night, right?

It was the 18th Circuit ASA that was on call that night who made that correct decision.

That has been pointed out on a par with the number of times that Obama's birth certificate has been verified... with the same lack of effect.

Can't you understand that all of these things fit neatly into only one possible explanation? The multiple gunshots, the 2 different sets of clothes/bodies, the ballistics of the trajectory, the impossible timeline, the absence of injuries - then faked medical reports, the illegal actions by the police, Trayvon's erased 911 call, Dee-Dee's hearing the whole thing, the magic audio analysis, the shadowy secret meetings and manipulations...

Why limit yourself to the verifiable facts and boring old rational conclusions?

Don't you know a conspiracy when you see one right in front of your lying eyes?

 

[Rare Truth]

These guys (http://www.wtsp.com/rss/article/247690/8/Pictures-in-Trayvon-Martin-case-shape-our-perception) say Martin was six feet tall and 160 pounds. That's pretty big for a child. I suppose that's why his guardians allowed the child to be out on his own at night.

At least it explains the impulsive attack on GZ. You can't expect a child to act as reasonably as an adult would. The impulse control simply isn't there yet. I'm not sure I buy the framing of a child-like mind in an adult-sized body as a complete explanation, but it does sound possible.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I suppose that's true - if you believe the compulsively lying George Zimmerman.

 

[Rare Truth]

That has been pointed out on a par with the number of times that Obama's birth certificate has been verified... with the same lack of effect.

Can't you understand that all of these things fit neatly into only one possible explanation? The multiple gunshots, the 2 different sets of clothes/bodies, the ballistics of the trajectory, the impossible timeline, the absence of injuries - then faked medical reports, the illegal actions by the police, Trayvon's erased 911 call, Dee-Dee's hearing the whole thing, the magic audio analysis, the shadowy secret meetings and manipulations...

Why limit yourself to the verifiable facts and boring old rational conclusions?

Don't you know a conspiracy when you see one right in front of your lying eyes?

Is calling people conspiracy theorists some kind of inoculation against anyone questioning the convoluted and combustible facts of this case?

 

[Unabogie]

These guys (http://www.wtsp.com/rss/article/247690/8/Pictures-in-Trayvon-Martin-case-shape-our-perception) say Martin was six feet tall and 160 pounds. That's pretty big for a child. I suppose that's why his guardians allowed the child to be out on his own at night.

At least it explains the impulsive attack on GZ. You can't expect a child to act as reasonably as an adult would. The impulse control simply isn't there yet. I'm not sure I buy the framing of a child-like mind in an adult-sized body as a complete explanation, but it does sound possible.

Thanks for pointing that out.

First, I'm glad it explains it to you, because Detective Serino and George couldn't explain it.

Second, it was 7:00 in the evening. Hardly a time when parents don't let their kids be outside. Which only makes George's story even more suspect. What's so suspicious about a kid walking at 7:00 that you'd call the cops?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=3&hp

Seriously. Listen to this interview. It's painful. The one that is labeled as happening on the 29th. George will get eaten alive on the stand. He comes across as completely dishonest and unfeeling. He just shot a kid and he had absolutely no remorse. And his story has more holes than a golf course.