Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[johnny karate]

If we go by the current standard here, then any person who hears noises coming from their back porch, looks out the window and sees nothing, then goes outside to check it out and gets attacked - is asking for trouble and should go to prison if they end up killing their attacker.

No one has suggested anything of the kind. Aside from being wildly inaccurate, your straw man is sad and pathetic.

 

[bookworm]

Listen to this tape:

http://gzlegalcase.com/documents/statements/audio_interview_0229_3.mp3

I'm sorry, I'm hard of hearing and I can't make anything out on tapes.

 

[bookworm]

No one has suggested anything of the kind. Aside from being wildly inaccurate, your straw man is sad and pathetic.

Yeah, there are alot of those around here.

I've heard it said plenty of times that he shouldn't have acted and investigated on his suspicions. In other words. Where have you been?

 

[bookworm]

Thanks Dan O and Unaboogie.

 

[Dan O.]

This sign? http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/japan-tv.jpg If this were a teev forensics drama we could get a reflection of the sign face off the Honda insignia.

But from this http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk453/TalkLeft/zimmerman/uturn2.jpg it looks more associated with the walkway than the street

But it looks like there is no street sign there (Unless that short white post is a street sign?)

It's visible in the walkthrough at about 9:37. The sign says "ALL PETS MUST BE ON A LEASH". The short white post is a utility. Either phone or cable.

The street signs can be recognized by their shadows at the intersections in google maps.

 

[johnny karate]

Yeah, there are alot of those around here.

I've heard it said plenty of times that he shouldn't have acted and investigated on his suspicions. In other words. Where have you been?

Yeah, sorry. I've been busy laughing at the ridiculous straw man from your last post in which you claim people are arguing you shouldn't be allowed to defend yourself from an attacker. You know, the one you're trying to walk back now.

 

[marplots]

My belief is that Zimmerman was punched once in the nose and then cut and scraped his head while rolling around on the ground in the ensuing struggle.

This scenario fits the evidence. The one Zimmerman presents - for the reasons stated above - does not.

Makes sense. Although it doesn't exclude some "beating my head on the cement" since that doesn't require hitting, but could be just grabbing. I'm interested in whether DNA testing was done on TM's hands and what that would have revealed -- which narrative it fits.

Would stand your ground apply in the less violent case, where TM punches him, knocks him down and he shoots when TM leans over him? Isn't the essential element, "I feared for my life?"

I'm assuming that the course you take to get a concealed weapons permit outlines the elements of a "good shooting" versus a bad one. So that doesn't help either way -- if I know going in what I need to say to frame the incident in the best possible light. Perhaps this is why the instructor is on the witness list.

 

[bookworm]

Yeah, sorry. I've been busy laughing at the ridiculous straw man from your last post in which you claim people are arguing you shouldn't be allowed to defend yourself from an attacker. You know, the one you're trying to walk back now.

Oh, I'm sorry, you misunderstood. I wasn't claiming people are arguing you shouldn't be allowed to defend yourself from an attacker. I am claiming people are saying that you shouldn't physically involve yourself in a bad situation by checking it out.

 

[Rare Truth]

OK. I found it Unabogie. On this tape:

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/documents/statements/audio_interview_0227.mp3

This was Serino's interview the day after the shooting. 5:07PM

First minute:
S: Do you have any kind of mental illness, depression, bipolar disorder, and of that kind of stuff?

Z: No.

Later, at about 10:00, Serino pulls out a picture of Trayvons 1/8" to 1/4" scratch to his finger, and says this is the only injury to TM's hand, and confronts him with the fact the injuries (both TM and GZ) are not consistent with his story.

Then at 24:00, Serino asks..."how do I explain how you didn't know the one of three streets in the neighborhood" as you're supposed to be head of the Neighborhood Watch?
"How do I do that?"

Z: To be honest I have a bad memory anyway? [24:44]

S: Is that documented anywhere?....cause I asked you that in the beginning...

 

[crimresearch]

Makes sense. Although it doesn't exclude some "beating my head on the cement" since that doesn't require hitting, but could be just grabbing. I'm interested in whether DNA testing was done on TM's hands and what that would have revealed -- which narrative it fits.

Would stand your ground apply in the less violent case, where TM punches him, knocks him down and he shoots when TM leans over him? Isn't the essential element, "I feared for my life?"

I'm assuming that the course you take to get a concealed weapons permit outlines the elements of a "good shooting" versus a bad one. So that doesn't help either way -- if I know going in what I need to say to frame the incident in the best possible light. Perhaps this is why the instructor is on the witness list.

Exactly the point. The issue that the jury has to decide is the reasonable belief at the point of shooting, not in the preceding 5 minutes or 5 years.

Had things stopped anywhere before the 'I thought he was going for my gun' moment, then neither self defense or SYG would apply.

And based on what has been reported, no one on this planet except George Zimmerman knows if he was in fact reasonably in fear for his life, or if he just lost it and shot someone during a fistfight.

And yes, in permit classes, at firing ranges, in gun stores, internet forums, magazines, etc. the threshold for self defense is brought up quite a bit. Couched in terms of 'If you ever shoot someone, be sure to tell the police X,Y, and Z'.

X,Y, and Z being: I was not committing a forcible felony. I thought they were going to kill me because of their aggressive words and actions. I thought they had a weapon or were going for one.

Which makes Zimmerman's words and actions as reported so far, consistent with what a guilty person would say. Also consistent with what an innocent person would say.

 

[Unabogie]

Makes sense. Although it doesn't exclude some "beating my head on the cement" since that doesn't require hitting, but could be just grabbing. I'm interested in whether DNA testing was done on TM's hands and what that would have revealed -- which narrative it fits.

Would stand your ground apply in the less violent case, where TM punches him, knocks him down and he shoots when TM leans over him? Isn't the essential element, "I feared for my life?"

I'm assuming that the course you take to get a concealed weapons permit outlines the elements of a "good shooting" versus a bad one. So that doesn't help either way -- if I know going in what I need to say to frame the incident in the best possible light. Perhaps this is why the instructor is on the witness list.

They did do it, and none of Zimmerman's DNA was found at all. Zero. None under his nails. No blood on his hands. Nada.

 

[Unabogie]

OK. I found it Unabogie. On this tape:

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/documents/statements/audio_interview_0227.mp3

This was Serino's interview the day after the shooting. 5:07PM

First minute:
S: Do you have any kind of mental illness, depression, bipolar disorder, and of that kind of stuff?

Z: No.

Later, at about 10:00, Serino pulls out a picture of Trayvons 1/8" to 1/4" scratch to his finger, and says this is the only injury to TM's hand, and confronts him with the fact the injuries (both TM and GZ) are not consistent with his story.

Then at 24:00, Serino asks..."how do I explain how you didn't know the one of three streets in the neighborhood" as you're supposed to be head of the Neighborhood Watch?
"How do I do that?"

Z: To be honest I have a bad memory anyway? [24:44]

S: Is that documented anywhere?....cause I asked you that in the beginning...

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.

This link seems to have the same interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=3&hp

 

[Rare Truth]

Makes sense. Although it doesn't exclude some "beating my head on the cement" since that doesn't require hitting, but could be just grabbing. I'm interested in whether DNA testing was done on TM's hands and what that would have revealed -- which narrative it fits.
...

None of Z's blood or DNA on was on TM's hands and fingernails.

This has been stated how many times now? It was just posted even a few posts ago. I don't know how someone could miss this.

 

[Dan O.]

Oh, I'm sorry, you misunderstood. I wasn't claiming people are arguing you shouldn't be allowed to defend yourself from an attacker. I am claiming people are saying that you shouldn't physically involve yourself in a bad situation by checking it out.

If you hear a fight going on in a bar (and for you, that would be a very loud fight), should you stay outside and call the police or should you go inside and check it out first?



According to George in the walkthrough, Trayvon walked past where George was parked on Twin Trees Lane and walked up to the tee and turned south. Then Trayvon returned and completely circled his car before running back to the tee and heading south again. If you take that as accurate portrayal of what happened, would a reasonable person assume that Trayvon would no longer be in the area of the tee?

 

[Rare Truth]

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.

This link seems to have the same interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=3&hp

I got that too, when directly going to gzlegal, but the mp3 opened when I clicked on that link.

Nonetheless, here is another source for the audio of that interview:

http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/06/zimmermanaudio0227.mp3

If that doesn't work, they are all here: http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cf...fn/2012/6/21/zimmerman_new_files.html?cid=rss

It's the: Interview with Sanford police Investigator Serino, Feb. 27

 

[bookworm]

If you hear a fight going on in a bar (and for you, that would be a very loud fight),

Wow. No desire to speak with you again.

 

[Dcdrac]

None of GZs blood or DNA on TM, as fighting generally involves close contact how did that happen?

If TM had been beating GZ's head on the pavement some blood and definitly DNA would have got on to TM

 

[johnny karate]

Oh, I'm sorry, you misunderstood. I wasn't claiming people are arguing you shouldn't be allowed to defend yourself from an attacker. I am claiming people are saying that you shouldn't physically involve yourself in a bad situation by checking it out.

Ahem...

If we go by the current standard here, then any person who hears noises coming from their back porch, looks out the window and sees nothing, then goes outside to check it out and gets attacked - is asking for trouble and should go to prison if they end up killing their attacker.

 

[Rare Truth]

Wow. No desire to speak with you again.

Why? Didn't you just say you were hard of hearing?

 

[Dan O.]

Wow. No desire to speak with you again.

It's ok, we can still communicate by text.