General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Tomtomkent]

As well as the murder of Francois Duprat www.revisionists.com/revisionists/duprat.html many other holocaust revisionists have received death threats and been physically assaulted. www.ihr.org/books/ztn.html

How many of these alleged crimes were carried out by members of the public?
How many were treated as crimes by the authorities?
What is the evidence of this being relevant to the question of how many countries don't have denial laws?

Is the total number greater than or less than the number of beatings, assualts and acts of vandalism against jews during the night of broken glass?

 

[TSR]

Francois Duprat was murdered in a bomb blast in 1978 for the "crime" of being a holocaust revisionist. www.revisionists.com/revisionists/duprat.html

A Jewish “Remembrance Commando” and a “Jewish Revolutionary Group” promptly claimed responsibility for the murder.

Had these groups ever done anything before, and have they done anything since?


No?


How do you know that they ever even existed, except as scapegoats? Since he had been accused by other deniers of being a police informant, isn't at least as like that it was *they* who car bombed him?

Especially since there were none of the threats CM posits against his life, but neo-Nazis *do* have a habit of violence?

 

[TSR]

The point I am making is the blatant hypocrisy of countries that have laws against holocaust revisionism. The same politicians who support freedom of expression for the Muhammad cartoons are the same politicians who support the imprisonment of holocaust revisionists. Even in Britain which doesn't have a specific "holocaust denial" law 2 men were imprisoned for distributing a comic book called "Tales of the Holohoax". http://downwithjugears.blogspot.com.au/2009/01/help-heretical-two.html This is the offending comic. www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres9/TalesV2.pdf

No, they were convicted of inciting racial hatred. And pretty much lost evrey appeal of the conviction, which could have been overturned by showing the factual nature of their publications (which factual basis they were spectacularly unable to demonstrate) -- but did get their sentences reduced slightly, which speaks against the conspiracy you and little clayton posit.

 

[TSR]

What you say is simply splitting hairs. Holocaust revisionism is illegal in several European countries. If Germans and Austrians are sensitive about the past that might be understandable but why should there be laws against holocaust revisionism in France, Poland and Switzerland which never had a nazi government. You are the bearer of double standards who always criticise the national socialists for being anti democratic yet you either ignore or downplay this blatant attack on freedom of speech. You are a hypocrite of the worst stripe.

Really? France and Poland *weren't* invaded, and Switzerland was never threatened by the Nazis?

Is that your final answer?

And pardon me, but I have consistently (and hereby do again) condemn laws against Holocaust denial. The answer to this delusion is not suppression, but to shine the hard light of historical fact on it, the better to point and laugh as is curls up and dies.

However, I (unlike you) am not compelled to lie about that history and (also unlike you) have empathy for those countries subject to the Nazi scourge and who have freely and democratically enacted such laws as they feel appropriate to make it more difficult for such hate to take root again.

You decry laws which, among other things, make it more difficult to deny genocides of any description, and yet we have never once heard your opinion on the Nuremberg laws.

What say you on *that* topic?

 

[TSR]

As well as the murder of Francois Duprat www.revisionists.com/revisionists/duprat.html many other holocaust revisionists have received death threats and been physically assaulted. www.ihr.org/books/ztn.html

And the sad part is, Mondial doesn't even realize it's backhanded acknowledgement that Holocaust denial is all about Jew hatred...

 

[SanityGap]

No, they were convicted of inciting racial hatred. And pretty much lost evrey appeal of the conviction, which could have been overturned by showing the factual nature of their publications (which factual basis they were spectacularly unable to demonstrate) -- but did get their sentences reduced slightly, which speaks against the conspiracy you and little clayton posit.

I think the comments from the CPS are worth quoting. They show a degree of tolerance that Mondial is wilfully ignorant of.
"Reviewing lawyer Mari Reid, of the CPS' Counter Terrorism Division said: "People are entitled to hold racist and extreme opinions which others may find unpleasant and obnoxious. What they are not entitled to do is to publish or distribute those opinions to the public in a threatening, abusive or insulting manner either intending to stir up racial hatred or in circumstances where it is likely racial hatred will be stirred up."

 

[LemmyCaution]

Francois Duprat was murdered in a bomb blast in 1978 for the "crime" of being a holocaust revisionist. www.revisionists.com/revisionists/duprat.html

In fact, the mendacity of the worst stripe is your citing the Duprat case in defense of this reply

Ostracizing and threats of death work well 99.44% of the time

to this question

Mondial, how many countries in the World don't have Holocaust denial laws?

asked in a discussion you initiated on anti-HD laws in the EU. The explosion you mention, whatever the facts and reasons for it (the perpetrators were never discovered), in which National Front activist Duprat was murdered, has not been alleged to have any connection to a government's punishing a "crime," let along shown to be connected to punishment for

the "crime" of being a holocaust revisionist.

It is, therefore, not an example of

countries that imprison people for expressing a non violent opinion on a historical subject

nor is it a relevant reply to a question about countries that

don't have Holocaust denial laws.

Your post is duplicitous and mendacious.

 

[000063]

Francois Duprat was murdered in a bomb blast in 1978 for the "crime" of being a holocaust revisionist. www.revisionists.com/revisionists/duprat.html

No, Jewish groups claimed that they were responsible. It's not like he didn't have plenty of other enemies.

What you say is simply splitting hairs. Holocaust revisionism is illegal in several European countries. If Germans and Austrians are sensitive about the past that might be understandable but why should there be laws against holocaust revisionism in France, Poland and Switzerland which never had a nazi government. You are the bearer of double standards who always criticise the national socialists for being anti democratic yet you either ignore or downplay this blatant attack on freedom of speech. You are a hypocrite of the worst stripe.

Fire in a crowded theatre, slander laws, laws against threats, etc.

 

[Dcdrac]

It seems this Mondial character has the same problem with historical ignorance as their follow denier cohorts, France and Poland never suffered nazi governement good greif....

So all that time between 1940 to 1944 Northern France was occupied by Pixies? and 1939 for Poland was occupied by goblins????

 

[tsig]

It seems this Mondial character has the same problem with historical ignorance as their follow denier cohorts, France and Poland never suffered nazi governement good greif....

So all that time between 1940 to 1944 Northern France was occupied by Pixies? and 1939 for Poland was occupied by goblins????

That would mean that the Germans were the orcs and Hitler was Sauron and the whole LotR trilogy was nothing more than more Jewish lies about the Holocaust.


(amazing what speculation untrammeled by facts can produce. )

 

[Clayton Moore]

What cover up? Disinterest is not the same as "covering up".

Educated people call it lying by omission.

 

[Clayton Moore]

No, Jewish groups claimed that they were responsible. It's not like he didn't have plenty of other enemies.

Does that mean

Jewish groups claimed that they were responsible?

Or does that mean
Jewish groups did not claim that they were responsible.

 

[Moss]

Someone claimed they were a Jewish group responsible for killing Duprat. For some odd reason that claim lead nowhere.

 

[TSR]

Actually, two competing groups made the claim that they were responsible -- neither of which had been heard of before and neither of which has been heard from since.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Educated people call it lying by omission.

Educated people understand that the news media aren't going to run stories of little interest, of little substance, that are unlikely to engage the viewers and thus sell advertising copy. Educated people do not consider the news media to be lying by omission about the results of my local fayer or the skateboarding dog on you tube.

In point of fact educated people, the ones with a genuine education, just call it omission.

 

[Border Reiver]

That would mean that the Germans were the orcs and Hitler was Sauron and the whole LotR trilogy was nothing more than more Jewish lies about the Holocaust.


(amazing what speculation untrammeled by facts can produce. )

And completely ignoring Prof. Tolkein's statement that LOTR was not a WWII allegory.

 

[Moss]

And completely ignoring Prof. Tolkein's statement that LOTR was not a WWII allegory.

Death of the author! Maybe.

 

[nomuse]

Actually, two competing groups made the claim that they were responsible -- neither of which had been heard of before and neither of which has been heard from since.

Was it the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea?

 

[TSR]

... with deniers as the suicide squad.

That showed us, huh?

 

[000063]

Does that mean

Jewish groups claimed that they were responsible?

Or does that mean
Jewish groups did not claim that they were responsible.

Cut that out. You've already been answered. I was wrong. People who claimed to be Jewish groups claimed to be responsible. What you will now, inevitably, ignore is that there even if one or both of the groups did exist, that doesn't mean they were actually responsible. Mondial's claim is two major qualifiers away from being true.

We can all see you're responding only to the points you think you can "gotcha" and ignoring all else. You always have an absurdly low ratio of "response length" to "length of post being responded to".