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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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Hey, I've got a question. Why wasn't GZ charged with perjury? Does anyone think perjury charges for GZ are coming soon?

I'm not sure if that is a serious question because it was covered multiple times.

Z didn't take the stand. Hence, no perjury for Z.

I believe someone brought up another crime he could be charged with by being a potted palm though... I'd have to search for it.
 
OK that's not a hoodie law.

You say "hoodie law", yet the law is from 1951 about "hoods".

Those cover the entire face and have eye-holes. Think KKK or a medieval executioner.

876.12 Wearing mask, hood, or other device on public way.—No person or persons over 16 years of age shall, while wearing any mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter upon, or be or appear upon any lane, walk, alley, street, road, highway, or other public way in this state.
 
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OK that's not a hoodie law.

You say "hoodie law", yet the law is from 1951 about "hoods".

Those cover the entire face and have eye-holes. Think KKK or a medieval executioner.


I think he's bringing this up in relation to Curlie in the 7-11. Has FLE started a manhunt for the masked stooge?
 
876.155 Applicability; ss. 876.12-876.15.—The provisions of ss. 876.12-876.15 apply only if the person was wearing the mask, hood, or other device:
(1) With the intent to deprive any person or class of persons of the equal protection of the laws or of equal privileges and immunities under the laws or for the purpose of preventing the constituted authorities of this state or any subdivision thereof from, or hindering them in, giving or securing to all persons within this state the equal protection of the laws;
(2) With the intent, by force or threat of force, to injure, intimidate, or interfere with any person because of the person’s exercise of any right secured by federal, state, or local law or to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from exercising any right secured by federal, state, or local law;
(3) With the intent to intimidate, threaten, abuse, or harass any other person; or
(4) While she or he was engaged in conduct that could reasonably lead to the institution of a civil or criminal proceeding against her or him, with the intent of avoiding identification in such a proceeding.
History.—s. 1, ch. 81-249; s. 1416, ch. 97-102.


As I posted earlier.

#4 would be the provision that might stretch to the 3 stooges.
 
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876.155 Applicability; ss. 876.12-876.15.—The provisions of ss. 876.12-876.15 apply only if the person was wearing the mask, hood, or other device:
(1) With the intent to deprive any person or class of persons of the equal protection of the laws or of equal privileges and immunities under the laws or for the purpose of preventing the constituted authorities of this state or any subdivision thereof from, or hindering them in, giving or securing to all persons within this state the equal protection of the laws;
(2) With the intent, by force or threat of force, to injure, intimidate, or interfere with any person because of the person’s exercise of any right secured by federal, state, or local law or to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from exercising any right secured by federal, state, or local law;
(3) With the intent to intimidate, threaten, abuse, or harass any other person; or
(4) While she or he was engaged in conduct that could reasonably lead to the institution of a civil or criminal proceeding against her or him, with the intent of avoiding identification in such a proceeding.
History.—s. 1, ch. 81-249; s. 1416, ch. 97-102.


As I posted earlier.

#4 would be the provision that might stretch to the 3 stooges.

That would be quite the stretch indeed
 
Was Martin being on top ever in question? That information has been known for a while, and I'm not aware that anyone is challenging it.

A witness saw M on top at one point. That does not mean M was necessarily on top for the entire 60 to 90 seconds the fight lasted.


Also, since it was a defense fund, MOM could have put it in trust and it wouldn't have to be reported to the court, since it's been paid to his attorney.

I thought some information was posted a week ago or so that questioned that.

I guess we will find out on the 29th if that money really is off limits.

Also, there could be way more PayPal donations money now. It wouldn't be surprised if it has doubled.
 
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<snip>

Tell you what, a long time ago I started lurking this thread because of something known as 'Easy Voice Biometrics' which made the claim that they could eliminate GZ as the one calling for help on witness 911 calls with that distorted sample. I thought that kind of a neat idea, but was rather skeptical of that claim as I've some knowledge of a slightly related field

<snip>

Weird that you say that in a post directed at NBS and quoting NBS. Because that is the exact same reason NBS gave for finding this thread:

<snip>
I found this thread by trying to search on scientific evidence to back up the accuracy of voice identification. Having worked with a lot of people in the audio field,
<snip>
 
Could someone clarify the time-line on the document dump that has to happen within 15 days.

Would that make it the day of, or the day before, the next bond hearing that is on the 29th?
 
Weird that you say that in a post directed at NBS and quoting NBS. Because that is the exact same reason NBS gave for finding this thread:

Yes, it was his posts and some others that interested me in the thread. The idea that voice analysis had become so precise surprised me, and I started lurking to follow that discussion.
 
Judge Lester got handed this can of worms without the evidence to go along with it. Just try to imagine what will happen if he has no choice but to let Zimmerman go at an SYG hearing. Will the mob just say, "aw shucks" and go about their business? Z will go into hiding. What will Judge Lester do?

If he does, it will be because that is the correct application of the law in their judgement. The judge is accountable to their local district and state, not to the hyperbole of internet posters. Judges make decisions, and live with them all the time.
 
Yes, would you like to go into it in excruciating detail like that...other thread? ;)
I will take that as no 'no' and that you made an unsupported statement without facts.
I disagree. Going after family members for perjury about transactions from a paypal account during a bond hearing strikes me as a fine example of trumped up charges. They had to go looking for this, something that was resolved within days.
I have a simple rule, tell the truth when you are in court. Do not make false statements. Your usage of 'trumped up' is a new one for me
Why do you think it might not stick?
The interpretation of laws by courts, there may be particulars to the actual statute that she does not meet. That is the way the system works. Charges offered often due not lead to conviction.
Just plug in the word you like better then, it won't actually matter (much) to the argument. Sometimes I like to have fun with words, but also at other times I mean exactly what I say and if you think it hyperbolic it might be because I think you're wrong--like this case.

You don't think being accused of being a liar is defamation?
So when the SA follows the charge of their position and actually follows up on someone possibly misrepresenting the facts, that is the job of the prosecutor. It is not defamation.
It's an easy way to smear someone, find something they said that was wrong or untrue
And if you knowingly do that under sworn testimony in court it is perjury.
Apparently you have a problem with that.
and call them a liar and there's silly little dupes out there who won't trust a thing they say from then on. There's people who know that and use it to their advantage.

Remember how some were saying that this issue coming up meant GZ must be guilty and would be found so because he 'lied' about the bond issue?
I am talking about the court and the trial, not the interwebs
A rather depressing read through many miscarriages of justice the last two years.
Except you haven't shown a miscarriage of justice in this case.
Indeed, the worst one out there...politics.
I will take that as more over statement and rhetoric then.
Not quite, it probably has to do with hurting GZ through charging SZ and making her charges look justified for her admiring voters.

You really don't like our judicial system, do you?
 
I will take that as no 'no' and that you made an unsupported statement without facts.

David, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. If you want to go over the evidence, we will. Let's start with the APC, that was the basis of my statement and would make an excellent model for helping determine whether she made a case 'far past her evidence' like I said. After all, that's supposed to be an example of the case they're going to make, and since this is Florida we now have access to much of the evidence and can evaluate how well the evidence supports her case, and (some of us!) can also gain some...insight...regarding just how she formulates her contentions.

I'll start with a positive. The last two paragraphs preceding the disclaimer and naming the charge are well-formulated. In a concise fashion all the information one could reasonably expect is there, and has since been supported by the additional evidence available to us. It is necessary to this charge that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin. We have an admission by GZ, evidence he had a gun on him, evidence the gun was fired, and then evidence Trayvon Martin died of a gunshot wound. Evaluating the raw evidence since disclosed has corroborated that section of the APC, as has additional evidence available through other sources. George Zimmerman has not withdrawn his admission, the physical evidence available is consistent with their claims.

The rest of the APC doesn't live up to that standard, though I'll be happy to hear your arguments on the subject. More than Trayvon being shot by George Zimmerman is required to support the murder two charge, and that part is deficient. So much so that it's obvious to a casual observer with even a passing knowledge of the subject, anyone telling you different is lying (or 'spinning'--pure pig ignorance is also a possibility!) to you, and I'll be happy to demonstrate why, I don't need to rely on authorities (though there are many who'd corroborate that of course) I can show you just why. It may take a hundred pages, but we'll get there. The actual evidence doesn't support the rest of the contentions, and the contentions themselves aren't necessarily indicative of murder.

Just start with a paragraph and see if it supports one of the necessary contentions being made, and if the totality of the evidence available to us (now) suggests that it is an accurate representation of the facts and evidence in the case. I think if you go through this you'll find out just why I am as confident of my position as I am, as if you think on it this will pretty much demonstrate why someone might be able to say 'a charge far past the evidence.' ;)

Or you can blow me off with a snarky comment. Your call. :)
 
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David, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. If you want to go over the evidence, we will. Let's start with the APC, that was the basis of my statement and would make an excellent model for helping determine whether she made a case 'far past her evidence' like I said. After all, that's supposed to be an example of the case they're going to make, and since this is Florida we now have access to much of the evidence and can evaluate how well the evidence supports her case, and (some of us!) can also gain some...insight...regarding just how she formulates her contentions.

I'll start with a positive. The last two paragraphs preceding the disclaimer and naming the charge are well-formulated. In a concise fashion all the information one could reasonably expect is there, and has since been supported by the additional evidence available to us. It is necessary to this charge that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin. We have an admission by GZ, evidence he had a gun on him, evidence the gun was fired, and then evidence Trayvon Martin died of a gunshot wound. Evaluating the raw evidence since disclosed has corroborated that section of the APC, as has additional evidence available through other sources. George Zimmerman has not withdrawn his admission, the physical evidence available is consistent with their claims.

The rest of the APC doesn't live up to that standard, though I'll be happy to hear your arguments on the subject. More than Trayvon being shot by George Zimmerman is required to support the murder two charge, and that part is deficient. So much so that it's obvious to a casual observer with even a passing knowledge of the subject, anyone telling you different is lying (or 'spinning'--pure pig ignorance is also a possibility!) to you, and I'll be happy to demonstrate why, I don't need to rely on authorities (though there are many who'd corroborate that of course) I can show you just why. It may take a hundred pages, but we'll get there. The actual evidence doesn't support the rest of the contentions, and the contentions themselves aren't necessarily indicative of murder.

Just start with a paragraph and see if it supports one of the necessary contentions being made, and if the totality of the evidence available to us (now) suggests that it is an accurate representation of the facts and evidence in the case. I think if you go through this you'll find out just why I am as confident of my position as I am, as if you think on it this will pretty much demonstrate why someone might be able to say 'a charge far past the evidence.' ;)

Or you can blow me off with a snarky comment. Your call. :)

What are you waiting for.... make your case.
 
Martin's hands being virtually injury-free is a strong indicator he didn't repeatedly hit Zimmerman.
I have been lurking in this thread for a while.

You know common sense is sometimes amazingly wrong. This is one of those things you would think is true but is really not as good an indicator as you think.

I was jumped once by 5 guys, luckily for me they did not know how to fight. Long story short, I whooped all 5 of them, one right after the other. Took a while as I had to dance around a lot to avoid being overwhelmed. Afterward my hands where red, but not a single cut. I must have landed half a dozen punches on each of them before they decided it was a bad decision and broke off the attack.

. . . oh well, this was before my back injury and becoming a pacifist, I am sure I will be called an internet tough guy now. Doesn't matter really, the facts are that if you are punching correctly, and not hitting someone in the teeth there is very little to cut your knuckles on.
 
Here is a transcript of DeeDee's interview with de la Rionda, complete with commentary. Providing the author is correct in his analysis, if the state calls DeeDee, Bernie can be called by the defense to explain his interviewing technique. So, it is possible Bernie could be O'Mara's star witness. :)

https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpr...-case-update-11-the-dee-dee-interview-kaboom/

Uh, no. I mean, I suppose it's possible, but that's just about the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
 
David, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. If you want to go over the evidence, we will. Let's start with the APC, that was the basis of my statement and would make an excellent model for helping determine whether she made a case 'far past her evidence' like I said. After all, that's supposed to be an example of the case they're going to make, and since this is Florida we now have access to much of the evidence and can evaluate how well the evidence supports her case, and (some of us!) can also gain some...insight...regarding just how she formulates her contentions.

I'll start with a positive. The last two paragraphs preceding the disclaimer and naming the charge are well-formulated. In a concise fashion all the information one could reasonably expect is there, and has since been supported by the additional evidence available to us. It is necessary to this charge that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin. We have an admission by GZ, evidence he had a gun on him, evidence the gun was fired, and then evidence Trayvon Martin died of a gunshot wound. Evaluating the raw evidence since disclosed has corroborated that section of the APC, as has additional evidence available through other sources. George Zimmerman has not withdrawn his admission, the physical evidence available is consistent with their claims.

The rest of the APC doesn't live up to that standard, though I'll be happy to hear your arguments on the subject. More than Trayvon being shot by George Zimmerman is required to support the murder two charge, and that part is deficient. So much so that it's obvious to a casual observer with even a passing knowledge of the subject, anyone telling you different is lying (or 'spinning'--pure pig ignorance is also a possibility!) to you, and I'll be happy to demonstrate why, I don't need to rely on authorities (though there are many who'd corroborate that of course) I can show you just why. It may take a hundred pages, but we'll get there. The actual evidence doesn't support the rest of the contentions, and the contentions themselves aren't necessarily indicative of murder.

Just start with a paragraph and see if it supports one of the necessary contentions being made, and if the totality of the evidence available to us (now) suggests that it is an accurate representation of the facts and evidence in the case. I think if you go through this you'll find out just why I am as confident of my position as I am, as if you think on it this will pretty much demonstrate why someone might be able to say 'a charge far past the evidence.' ;)

Or you can blow me off with a snarky comment. Your call. :)


The evidence as presented so far it not the evidence in totality, mostly lacking are Zimmerman's statements to the officers who questioned him. Now if those prove unexciting then there will not be much of a case. However, my point is that we do not have the evidence as it will be presented at trial, we will have some more of it soon.

And most likely there are going to be aspects of the prosecutions case that people (not just you) will disagree with.

Without GZ's statements it is really hard to say exactly which way the case will go, as stated before I think that the prosecution will try to make a case that GZ made a series rash decision and the case will hinge on that presentation. We do know that the condo/apartment association new letters are presented currently in the first document dump.

So the prosecution will likely try to paint a picture that GZ made the rash decision to get out of the car and follow TM, and more importantly that this is something a reasonable person would not have done.

Now without GZ's statements to investigators it is really hard to guess where the prosecution will go after that. Most likely they will try to establish that GZ's decisions were not reasonable and that they led to a dangerous situation.

But I again would say that until we have all the evidence that will be presented at the trial it would be rash to make any decisions about the strength of the evidence.

It may be that further demonstration of unreasonable motives will be developed from GZ's statements. And the crucial point is that it will truly matter to those who hear that evidence in court and follow the judges instructions on the laws that GZ will be charged under, the jury.

This was your comment which i questioned
Not anytime that would be silly. However if they make a charge far past their evidence and then go after said person's wife for routine questions during a bond hearing regarding their legal defense fund, an issue that had been settled weeks before, then it's rational to at least wonder about it.
underlining mine
When asked you did not clarify and I am pointing out, we are not privy to all the evidence that the prosecution has, so any statement about 'if they make a charge far past their evidence', the if is dependent upon a large unknown, what evidence is it that the prosecution made that decision upon.

And clearly until a further anticipated document dump that evidence is potentially unknown to us.

Now if Corey decides to dismiss charges and not go forward with the trial, then I would think that yes she had pressed charges beyond the evidence.
 
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I have been lurking in this thread for a while.

You know common sense is sometimes amazingly wrong. This is one of those things you would think is true but is really not as good an indicator as you think.

I was jumped once by 5 guys, luckily for me they did not know how to fight. Long story short, I whooped all 5 of them, one right after the other. Took a while as I had to dance around a lot to avoid being overwhelmed. Afterward my hands where red, but not a single cut. I must have landed half a dozen punches on each of them before they decided it was a bad decision and broke off the attack.

. . . oh well, this was before my back injury and becoming a pacifist, I am sure I will be called an internet tough guy now. Doesn't matter really, the facts are that if you are punching correctly, and not hitting someone in the teeth there is very little to cut your knuckles on.

As compelling as anecdotal evidence is, if this is type of reasoning to be used to determine whether or not Martin was repeating punching Zimmerman, it's completely bass ackwards.

It starts with the assumption that Martin was repeatedly punching Zimmerman, and works backwards from there to make the evidence fit that assumption.

Zimmerman had a broken nose and an otherwise uninjured face. Martin had a tiny scrape on one hand. That's it. That's all the evidence we have at this point to determine how many times Martin struck Zimmerman.

Someone with an agenda to prove Martin was the aggressor would contort that evidence to make it fit their predetermined narrative.

Someone simply seeking to learn the truth would look at this evidence and reasonably conclude that Martin hit Zimmerman one time.
 
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