"The private sector is doing fine."

[Travis]

My favorite proposal to date is for the US Treasury to issue $852 quadrillion in bonds to build the Death Star. If we want to create 100% employment, why not do it in style?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/modest-proposal-boost-us-gdp-852-quadrillion-build-imperial-death-star

I'm sold.

I bet Lockheed Martin already has a prototype even.

 

[Cain]

Looking over the past fifty years, I'd have to say Obama's presidency has been the most recent...

 

[Ziggurat]

Looking over the past fifty years, I'd have to say Obama's presidency has been the most recent.

Your post is not the most recent.

 

[Caper]

So, tell me, what exactly makes Alito or Roberts centrists?

You're right. I guess they are not centrists.

 

[RandFan]

Recommended

The IEA report on fracking paints a pretty good picture and claims the risks are quite manageable but require oversight.

ETA: I would very much like to see a response by those in opposition to fracking but the report looks pretty good for fracking for a number of reasons including climate change.

 

[BenBurch]

The IEA report on fracking paints a pretty good picture and claims the risks are quite manageable but require oversight.

Exactly. It's like any other sort of extractive resource. There are side effects, and you have to manage them.

I am MUCH happier with fracking for pertroleum and gas than I am with mountain range removal for coal.

On the latter subject; I am QUITE certain I could design you a robotic system for extracting the 8" thick seams of coal they take down whole mountains for without taking down the mountains.

 

[maxpower1227]

Continuing this odd derail, Sotomayor was not imo a top tier candidate either, yet Republicans on the Judiciary Committee rolled over like whipped dogs instead of going into difficult questions for her.

Should she recuse herself from ACA deliberations (she was a white house connected attorney giving legal opinions on it) or join in a 6-3 unconstitutional decision I'll apologise for this comment.

I'm pretty sure you mean to refer to Kagan here.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Should she recuse herself from ACA deliberations (she was a white house connected attorney giving legal opinions on it) or join in a 6-3 unconstitutional decision I'll apologise for this comment.

And do you similarly call for Clarence Thomas to recuse himself on this case?

 

[AlBell]

Continuing this odd derail, Sotomayor Kagan was not imo a top tier candidate either, yet Republicans on the Judiciary Committee rolled over like whipped dogs instead of going into difficult questions for her.

Should she recuse herself from ACA deliberations (she was a white house connected attorney giving legal opinions on it) or join in a 6-3 unconstitutional decision I'll apologise for this comment.

I fear another Obama appointment unless the senate grows some balls to challenge.

On topic, no, the private economy is not doing fine, nor is the economy at less than 2%/yr GDP growth. It may work as a sop to unionistas; I hope not.

ftfm.

Neither do I like Sotomayor.

 

[AlBell]

I'm pretty sure you mean to refer to Kagan here.

I did. Thank you.

And do you similarly call for Clarence Thomas to recuse himself on this case?

Nope. Why should I?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Nope. Why should I?

To show that you're applying some sort of consistent principle and not just making a partisan plea.

Thomas' wife has been at least as involved in opposing the ACA as Kagan was in supporting it. If you were legitimately concerned about eliminating political bias, you would be demanding Thomas' recusal as well.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

On topic, no, the private economy is not doing fine, nor is the economy at less than 2%/yr GDP growth.

Again "private sector" is not the equivalent of "the economy".

And I have no idea what you mean by "the private economy". The private sector is a part of the U.S. economy. ( There aren't several separate "economies".) And the private sector is doing fine (in the context of adding jobs*). It's got everything it needs already by way of incentives to invest and expand.

In fact the only condition that might be hampering further expansion within the private sector is uncertainty wrt government issues (the budget, the debt ceiling, etc.) In other words, the only other thing that could help the private sector is to resolve public sector issues.

*And this most definitely was the context of Obama's remarks. Here are several excerpts:

"Keep in mind that the private sector has been hiring at a solid pace over the last 27 months. But one of the biggest weaknesses has been state and local governments, which have laid off 450,000 Americans. These are teachers and cops and firefighters. Congress should pass a bill putting them back to work right now, giving help to the states so that those layoffs are not occurring.

"In addition, since the housing bubble burst, we've got more than a million construction workers out of work. There's nothing fiscally responsible about waiting to fix your roof until it caves in. We've got a lot of deferred maintenance in this country. We could be putting a lot of people back to work rebuilding our roads, our bridges, some of ours schools.

"There's work to be done. There are workers to do it. Let's put them back to work right now. The housing market is stabilizing and beginning to come back in many parts of the country, but there are still millions of responsible homeowners who've done everything right, but still struggle to make ends meet. So, as I talked about just a few weeks ago, let's pass a bill that gives them a chance to save an average of $3,000 a year by refinancing their mortgage and taking advantage of these historically low rates. That's something we can do right now that would make a difference.

"Instead of just talking a good game about job creators, Congress should give the small-business owners that actually create most of the new jobs in America a tax break for hiring more workers.

"These are ideas that, again, have gotten strong validation from independent, nonpartisan economists. It would make a difference in our economy. And there's no excuse for not passing these ideas. We know they can work."

"The truth of the matter is that, as I said we've created 4.3 million jobs over the last two -- 27 months; over 800,000 just this year alone. The private sector is doing fine.

"Where we're seeing weaknesses in our economy have to do with state and local government, oftentimes cuts initiated by, you know, governors or mayors who are not getting the kind of help that they have in the past from the federal government and who don't have the same kind of flexibility as the federal government in dealing with fewer revenues coming in.

"And so, you know, if -- if Republicans want to be helpful, if they really want to move forward and put people back to work, what they should be thinking about is how do we help state and local governments and how do we help the construction industry.

But feel free to join with Romney in purposely misconstruing the meaning of Obama's statement by stripping it of this context and pretend he meant something he clearly and obviously did not.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/08/context-private-sector-doing-fine/

 

[BenBurch]

Again "private sector" is not the equivalent of "the economy".
...

His argument disappears if he agrees with you, though.

 

[AlBell]

His argument disappears if he agrees with you, though.

The accounting fiction that govt expenditures add to GDP is imo a joke, since in fact that is a decline. What wealth does the govt add?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The accounting fiction that govt expenditures add to GDP is imo a joke, since in fact that is a decline.

You think government jobs are a fiction?

 

[AlBell]

You think government jobs are a fiction?

I think govt payroll is too big.

Fiction? No, but what wealth do they create?

 

[applecorped]

I think govt payroll is too big.

Fiction? No, but what wealth do they create?

They create all of it by keeping the country running.

 

[RandFan]

I think govt payroll is too big.

Fiction? No, but what wealth do they create?

As I've said before, this a silly argument. As an auditor and finance programmor I've often heard CEOs say things like, "but the accounting department does not generate a dime of revenue". But none ever get rid of the accounting departments. If you can figure out why every medium to large business has an accounting department in spite of the cost of labor and in spite of the fact that accounting does not generate revenue then you will understand why govt is important (or you could move to Somalia).

Government should be adequate to meet the needs of citizens and businesses. Just asserting that you think payroll is too much doesn't advance the discussion.

 

[Frank Newgent]

As I've said before, this a silly argument. As an auditor and finance programmor I've often heard CEOs say things like, "but the accounting department does not generate a dime of revenue". But none ever get rid of the accounting departments. Government should be adequate to meet the needs of citizens and businesses. Just asserting that you think payroll is too much doesn't advance the discussion.

Maybe we could privatize elections?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I think govt payroll is too big.

Too big for what? Do you think Obama is "out of touch" with laid off public sector employees?

Fiction?

It was your word. Doesn't bother me if you have no interest in defending it.

No, but what wealth do they create?

What are you talking about?

Obama was talking about jobs.

Now you're claiming that government payroll shouldn't count into GDP. Why not? GDP is a measure of all goods and services produced within a country.

Are you now claiming that the public sector is not part of the economy? That seems as indefensible as your "fiction" claim.

ETA: So let's get to specifics. Would you exclude municipal garbage collection from GDP? Public school teacher salaries? Police officers? Judges' pay? Medical goods and services paid for by Medicare, Medicaid or even the VA? Military contracts?

And why? Repeating your silly question, "What wealth do they create?" is not an answer. It doesn't say at all why you think these services should be excluded from GDP. And none of this defends your absurd position that Obama's remark about the private sector is somehow inconsistent with a recognition that the economy is still in trouble.