Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

No one is arguing that they impounded his vehicle.

 

[Dan O.]

The keys must have been found quickly because when the officer with the camera arrives at 19:55, Diana Smith, the keys are already marked (with the #1 marker), according to her report.

That's funny, the photographs show a sequence of each item photographed from a distance with no evidence marker, then the closeups with the last closeup including the evidence marker. I clearly remember that's the case with the other items but maybe the keys were different. I'll have to move to my other computer to look at the photos again, is it worth such an effort?


ETA: I had to get up to let the cat out anyways. The crime scene photos begin at 21:42 with photos of the house fronts on Twin Tree Lane. Evidence marker #1 is placed next to the keys in the closeup sequence between 21:56:45 and 21:57:01 just as I has remembered.

 

[LTC8K6]

Wouldn't the police think it was suspicious if you waited a while before mentioning that the keys were yours and that you were in your truck? And now your truck is gone from the scene?

Wouldn't the police think immediately that you look guilty?

Wouldn't the police mention this in their reports?

"GZ hid the fact that he was in his vehicle until questioned about the keys found at the scene. GZ's wife removed the truck from the scene quickly."

Wouldn't we have evidence tampering charges?

Even now, from Corey we'd have them.

So, I think something is missing from the story of GZ's truck.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It's really amazing that you dispute my claim without any supporting evidence of your own. I've been immersed in discussions involving touch DNA in another thread for the last couple of years. My expectations are backed by this prior experience.

It's really amazing that you are making such a fuss over your argument from authority, and don't provide any supporting evidence of your own.

You left out some key bits in your quoting:

...
Trayvon had bare hands, his attempt to wrestle the gun away from George would necessarily leave DNA evidence on the gun.
...

...
Personally, I think that George's DNA should have been found on the trigger.
...

...
I would expect that a life or death struggle over a gun would be almost guaranteed to leave DNA behind especially where the gun is grabbed on surfaces that aren't intended for holding it. I don't have such statistics at hand but it is something that can be measured and probably has been.

So your years of experience tell you that GZ DNA would be on the trigger, but it wasn't.

You provide no evidence to back up the claim that a struggle would be almost guaranteed to leave DNA evidence.

I do agree, that it would seem to make sense that grabbing the gun with more force, such as in a struggle, would tend to leave more DNA evidence. But I don't know that, and you didn't demonstrate that.

But if it turns out that GZ claims TM not only grabbed for the gun, but actually grabbed the gun, then you should definitely provide all your evidence. Until then, it seems a bit premature.

 

[Rare Truth]

Wouldn't the police think it was suspicious if you waited a while before mentioning that the keys were yours and that you were in your truck? And now your truck is gone from the scene?

Wouldn't the police think immediately that you look guilty?

Wouldn't the police mention this in their reports?

"GZ hid the fact that he was in his vehicle until questioned about the keys found at the scene. GZ's wife removed the truck from the scene quickly."

Wouldn't we have evidence tampering charges?

Even now, from Corey we'd have them.

So, I think something is missing from the story of GZ's truck.

Just shaking my head at the illogic of that post and that ridiculous quote.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Have you got a source for that claim? The photographs of both flashlights seem to show they were off at the time. In one photograph of the keychain flashlight, there is a lighter color grass in a pattern that resembles the beam pattern of a flashlight. In another photo, there is a blade of grass reflecting the flash. Both of these might have been mistaken as evidence thet the litttle flashlight was on in lower resolution photos.

Yes, it's in the police report. Below is a link to a searchable PDF containing the discovery documents .

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

On 02/2612012 a t approximately 1935 hour s . f was contacted by Officer T. Smi th in reference to responding to Retreat at Twin L~kes to process a homicide scene. I arrived on scene at approximately 1955 hours and met wi th Officer Ayala and Of f icer Mead who briefed me on the scene. Currently at this time In the evening, It was dark out and we were experiencing Intermittent showers.
At that time, I walked through the scene wi th the of f icer 's and they pointed out Items of evidence that were already located, It was stili raining at this time. It was dark outside, raining of f and on, and there was not much l ight l ight ing up In the courtyard. There were a set of keys containing a smal l f lash l ight that was on, a col i phone, larger flashlight, two plast ic bags, fll1lt aid kIt, medical supplies, the vict im's body that was cover&d by a yellow medical blanket, and an Arizona tea can

 

[Rare Truth]

Yes, it's in the police report. Below is a link to a searchable PDF containing the discovery documents .

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

Your poorly transcribed highlight is wrong.

It reads "a small flash light on the ring"

 

[Rare Truth]

 

[Cylinder]

That could simply be an inaccurate quote.

...or came from an uninformed source.

I asked another patrol officer to run the vehicle tags parked along the road on both sides of the incident.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

If they didn't examine the truck, it was not because they thought GZ was on foot. It was because they chose not to examine it. That's how the story is inaccurate, imo.

They knew GZ was not on foot, imo. GZ's keys have an evidence marker in the crime scene photos taken that night. Marker #1. GZ's story is that he was on his way back to the truck. GZ's story apparently mentions some form of TM circling the truck. GZ was grilled that night.

I don't find it difficult to believe that the initial officers on the scene believed GZ to be on foot. Despite the NEN operator knowing, I can imagine he may have told the officer to call GZ and GZ would meet him because he was on foot, or similar.

Beyond the initial assumption though, I find it hard to believe they would not have the information required to determine GZ initially was in his truck, rather quickly. Certainly before GZ called his wife to bring him clothes, which is when he must have told her to move the truck (speculation).

I thought we already went through this discussion, and I recall some legal arguments that they would not have been able to seize the truck.

Aside from noting where the truck was, which does not require seizing it, what specifically is so important about the truck ?

 

[LTC8K6]

[qimg]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/who007/flashlight.jpg[/qimg]

The keys were found within minutes of the shooting, regardless of which version of Smith's report is correct.

PDF page 80, Smith clearly says the light was on.

"There were a set of keys containing a small flashlight that was on, a cell phone, larger flashlight,..."

Well before 19:55, the keys were marked as item #1.

 

[Rare Truth]

...or came from an uninformed source.

What the hell does that have to do with the killers vehicle not being impounded?

Nothing.

 

[Rare Truth]

The keys were found within minutes of the shooting, regardless of which version of Smith's report is correct.

PDF page 80, Smith clearly says the light was on.

"There were a set of keys containing a small flashlight that was on, a cell phone, larger flashlight,..."

Well before 19:55, the keys were marked as item #1.

lol.

Oh my god.

Well the plucky, poor ly t r an crbd PDF says it, so it must be so!

What to believe What to believe!

 

[LTC8K6]

Here is the page 80 version, you used a different version.

 

[Cylinder]

The keys were found later, well after Z had been in custody.

Shellie had already moved the vehicle by then.

Just more incompetence from the Mayberry police team.

They would not have had any power to search the vehicle that night. The keys weren't found "well after." The keys were clearly observed by officers (santiago, Ceisla, Smith et al) and assigned an object marker before Martin's body was removed from the scene.

There is no evidence that Ms. Zimmerman had moved the vehicle before the keys were located.

 

[Cylinder]

What the hell does that have to do with the killers vehicle not being impounded?

Nothing.

They had no power to impound (or even search) Zimmerman's vehicle. They were prohibited from it.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yep. It was a self defense case. They probably could not search his vehicle.

I believe that was mentioned before.

 

[Dan O.]

Yes, it's in the police report. Below is a link to a searchable PDF containing the discovery documents .

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

Of all the officers that noticed the Honda keys, how many of them noted the little beacon of a flashlight drawing their attention? I think the photographer used her photographs to reconstruct her memory and saw the artifacts that I pointed out that could be mistaken for showing the light was on. A close examination of the photos show no evidence of internal illumination from either flashlight.

 

[Rare Truth]

Here is the page 80 version, you used a different version.

[qimg]http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/de80/aaq52xx21xvqapx5g.jpg[/qimg]

When Serino did that second page later, he obviously cut and pasted and/or missed the rest. There is no other mention anywhere of the flashlight being turned on.

It was a flash light on a ring.

Page 20. Here: http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

 

[Dan O.]

Well before 19:55, the keys were marked as item #1.

Did you miss the edit to my earlier post?