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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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Rare Truth said:
No, as I said - the Charging Affidavit. The witness (DD) is part of that Affidavit.

http://haleybehre.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/avidavit.pdf
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OK. Does Corey have to present a witness to testify to each point Gilbreath and O'Steen put in the affidavit?

ETA - The reason I ask is there is a pretty long list of sources at the beginning of the affidavit, and no part of the affidavit is tied by name to any particular witness.
 
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johnny karate said:
When I said "as a whole", I meant just that. As a whole.

And as a whole, what we glean from Witness #6's statements is that he cannot tell us if Martin was hitting Zimmerman. No amount of semantic trickery changes that fact.
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Oh, in that case, part of the whole statement is t that the witness saw TM on top of GZ, hitting GZ, and heard GZ yell for help.

You don't mean the whole, but rather the latest version of the story, which has superseded the earlier version. And in that case, whole is semantic trickery.

johnny karate said:
What makes you think that a witness statement regarding what he saw fleetingly in the darkness should be held to the same standard as that of an accused murderer regarding what he directly experienced?
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Witness 6 didn't 'directly experience' seeing and hearing these things ? Did he experience them by proxy or something ?
 
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GWCarver said:
OK. Does Corey have to present a witness to testify to each point Gilbreath and O'Steen put in the affidavit?

ETA - The reason I ask is there is a pretty long list of sources at the beginning of the affidavit, and no part of the affidavit is tied by name to any particular witness.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "have to."

I feel confident that since she is so integral to the case that she is noted as a witness in the bare bones Charging Affidavit, AC will be using her testimony. Whether it's "a must" - by law, or some such, I couldn't say.

It just seems blatantly obvious, to me anyway, that witness will be testifying.
 
Rare Truth said:
DD is part of the Charging Affidavit. She'll be on the witness stand.
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The state probably needs DD's testimony. It's hard to imagine that the "pushed" claim will be allowed into evidence - it's not part of Martin's spontaneous statement, it's not a direct observation and it's hard to beleive that the court woud let her draw an uninformed (or such a poorly informed) opinion on such a weighty matter. She may be able to describe the sound or whatever.

DD's testimony will open the floodgate for impeachment evidence against Trayvon.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Oh, in that case, part of the whole statement is t that the witness saw TM on top of GZ, hitting GZ, and heard GZ yell for help.

You don't mean the whole, but rather the latest version of the story, which has superseded the earlier version. And in that case, whole is semantic trickery.
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No, the whole statement is that Witness #6 said he saw something, and then admitted he can't really be sure what he saw.

The importance of the whole statement is what it tells us as a whole, which is that Witness #6 doesn't know if Martin was hitting Zimmerman.

Witness 6 didn't 'directly experience' seeing and hearing these things ? Did he experience them by proxy or something ?
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The event in question is the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin.

So, no, Witness #6 did not directly experience that event.

You seem to want to play a game in which you can know what Witness #6 actually saw, despite what Witness #6 has to say on that point.

I'll leave you to that game as the silliness inherent in it as grown tiresome for me.
 
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3rd Supplemental Designation of ASA Pursuant to Executive Order

WHEREAS, the Honorable Norman R. Wolfinger, State Attorney, Eighteenth Judicial Circuit of Florida, has voluntarily disqualified himself and has requested the executive assignment of another State Attorney with respect to the investigation of this case and all related matters.

Pursuant to Executive Order 12-72, Richard W. Mantei, Assistant State Attorney, is hereby designated to handle the investigation, prosecution and represtentation of the State of Florida in the forgoing matter.
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Hrmm....
 
Cylinder said:
Wolfinger's been out since early April. I guess Corey's changing teams here. I wonder if de la Riando is out, if it's just an administrative change or if they're doing a full review of the case.
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Maybe the Harvard thing came back to bite her...

ETA: I don't know him, or even of him... not a lot to Google, other than he's a 'tough on DUIs' prosecutor out of Jax, which isn't the political hub of Florida if you get my drift.
 
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The 18th Circuit website titles the document New Appointment of ASA Co-Counsel. So I guess Rionda has a new boss.
 
johnny karate said:
No, the whole statement is that Witness #6 said he saw something, and then admitted he can't really be sure what he saw.

The importance of the whole statement is what it tells us as a whole, which is that Witness #6 doesn't know if Martin was hitting Zimmerman.
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As you say, its not the whole statement, but what it tells us as a whole. It tells us that the witness claimed to see something, then claimed later that he had not really seen it. It's important to understand that, and not only focus on his latest statement, which you claim is the 'factual' one.

johnny karate said:
The event in question is the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin.

So, no, Witness #6 did not directly experience that event.

You seem to want to play a game in which you can know what Witness #6 actually saw, despite what Witness #6 has to say on that point.

I'll leave you to that game as the silliness inherent in it as grown tiresome for me.
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I don't think I made any claims about what witness 6 actually saw any more than you did, I simply referenced his original witness statement.

He directly experienced hearing and seeing the event. He did not physically participate in the event. You are making it seem as if participating in the event is the only thing that counts.
 
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Cylinder said:
That was in W6's (aka John) original statement. Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him "MMA style."
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It's part of Serinos notes on the interview. I just quoted the witness statement the witness signed.

On 2/26/2012 at approximately 2105 hours I interviewed XXXXXX stated that
while Inside of his residence he heard a commotion coming from the walk way behind his residence. When he investigated, he witnessed a black male, wearing a dark colored "hoodie" on top of a white or Hispanic male who WaS yelling for help, He elaborated by stating the black male was mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches "MMA (mixed martial arts) style".
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Cylinder said:
The 18th Circuit website titles the document New Appointment of ASA Co-Counsel. So I guess Rionda has a new boss.
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No. He's on the team with him.

Both are Assistant State Attorneys.

Cory just added more guns. Like O'Mara did.
 
This is a Profile interview with the State Atty's Office from 2002.


“The assistant chief state attorney is very similar to the executive officer on a ship or in the Marines. He fulfills the day-to-day directions given to him by the state attorney. He has a tremendous responsibility to oversee every aspect of this office.”


WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE OFFICE?


“There is a director of County Court, John Guy, who prosecutes all misdemeanors; director of Circuit Court, Bernardo De La Rionda, who prosecutes all the routine felonies; director of ROC, Mark Borello, who handles cases against repeat offenders; director of Special Assault Division, Libby Senterfitt, who supervises prosecution of all sex crimes, crimes against children, crimes against the elderly and felony domestic violence; director of Homicide, George Bateh, who supervises the prosecution of all murders and certain other major crimes; director of Special Prosecution, Jay Taylor, who handles the prosecution of major drug trafficking, organized crime, environmental crimes and consumer fraud; director of the Gun Crime Unit, Angela Corey, who handles a grant that we received to concentrate on gun crimes, but she really also supervises major crimes and director of the juvenile division, and Jay Plotkin who handles all the juvenile cases. Then I have two directors that are in charge of my other two counties: Timothy Collins, Clay County, and Granville Burgess, Nassau County.”


HOW MANY PROSECUTORS DO YOU HAVE?


“It varies. Ideally, we would have very close to 90.
<snip>
Assistant State Attorneys
John Merrett, Edward Cole, Denise Duque, Donna Thurson, Adair Rommel, Pamela Johnson, John Kalinowski, Samuel Garrison, Khary Gaynor, Jeremy Lasnetski, Katherine Yzquierdo, Cyrus Zomorodian, Janet Wilkerson, Nicholas Christopolis, Lateasha Benson, Deidre Parker-Buckner, Cheyenne Palmer, Marzena Mignone, Phil Bavington, Darin Gardner, Douglas Dorsey, Rachel Sher, Rajan Joshi, Ron Geiersbach, Jessica Crowson, James Kallaher, Kate Feldman, Shawn Arnold, Maryanne Yeomans, Dawn Kuhlmey, Gabriella Young, Katie Lee, Kevin Frien, Marjorie Mittleman, Richard Mantei, Maureen Horkan, Shannon MacGillis, Matt O’Keefe, Jennifer Espenship, Jeffrey Moody, Melissa Coll, Mose Floyd, Charles Davis, Lori Carr, Angela Dixon, Melissa Williamson, Erin Bray, Jim Pimentel, Raymond Carlson, Mark Caliel, Rebecca Zima, Ernst Bell, Mac Heavener, Julie Agent, Shephen Siegel, Arthur Johnston Jr. and Laurence Pritchard.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=1775
 
TheL8Elvis said:
It's part of Serinos notes on the interview. I just quoted the witness statement the witness signed.
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For those who don't follow MMA, at the beginning of the following video when the one guy throws his leg over the other guy and sits on him, he has "mounted" the guy on the bottom.

http://www.ehow.com/video_5273965_mounted-arm-bars-mma.html

If the guy on the bottom was actually fighting, the guy on top would be considered "in his guard".

ETA - From that position, as well as others, raining down blows with fists is called "ground and pound". Another technique is called "hammer fist". Just make a fist and hit something with your pinkie on the bottom and that is how it is done. It is usually used to take someone out when they are already down and hurt, and surprisingly effective. It wouldn't leave any cuts on your knuckles.
 
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Moss said:
I'm a bit confused, where did the MMA style beating come in?
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One of the witnesses used the phrase 'throwing punches MMA style' to describe one person on top of another person punching downward.

Nothing was actually said about there being any MMA going on.

I suspect he could have just as easily said 'playground fight style'.
 
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