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Respecting Christians

That's for sure. I subscribe to the idea that we're all innately prejudiced in some way, and that a priority should be made of finding it within oneself and confronting it. I think Tricky spoke quite nicely about this a while back, actually.

Still, if I were a gay person and someone encountered someone who was a member of some club or church that denounces homosexuality, that's an action to me. His thoughts have manifested themselves and I'm wont to lose respect for him because of it. In the same way, saying you're a Christian means you trust God's word as perfect, and God's word says that I deserve eternal suffering. I struggle to get over that hurdle with people initially before I give them a pass, so to speak, based on one of the reasons I mentioned in the OP.
 
cj.23 said:
Since when?

cj x
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Hebrews 6:1-2

Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

Matthew 25:41-46

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Mark 3:29

But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Mark 9:43

If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where " 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.' Everyone will be salted with fire.

Revelation 14:9-11

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."


I know that god and the bible are optional extras for you Anglicans but that's what it says.
 
Yes but why does being gay make you a sinner? It does, but so does being straight, asexual or any other orientation you care to event. Being human makes you a sinner, as sin is ubiquitous, a defining element of the human condition. All have sinned and are worthy of death as the Good Book says. And we all die. Sin, death and taxes - the three human universals. As far as I can see in Pauline theology being gay is exactly the same as forgetting to call your mother on Mother's Day???

cj x
 
Legend said:
At what stage in that statement do I err? I'm guessing the final clause, correct?
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I'd take issue with most of it, but I have a lecture to write. I certainly don't think you deserve eternal punishment though, true enough. The notion the bible is equal to Christianity is something I constantly fight, simply because it is heretical (and silly). I fully understand your logic though, and sympathise if you have to deal with hypocritical asshats on a regular basis condemning you on some Biblical text or the other and ignoring all the ones they break every five minutes

cj x
 
cj.23 said:
Yes but why does being gay make you a sinner?
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Have a good old pray and ask god.

Leviticus 20:13

13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.''
 
cj.23 said:
I'd take issue with most of it, but I have a lecture to write. I certainly don;t think you deserve eternal punishment though, true enough. The notion the bible is equal to Christianity is something I constantly fight, simply because it is heretical (and silly). I fully understand your logic though, and sympathise if you have to deal with hypocritical asshats on a regular basis condemning you on some Biblical text or the other and ignoring all the ones they break every five minutes

cj x
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You want to have your religious cake and eat it.
 
dafydd said:
Have a good old pray and ask god.

Leviticus 20:13

13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.''
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And it's equally sinful to eat shellfish, work on the Sabbath, or look lustfully at a woman. The difference is?

cj x
 
cj.23 said:
And it's equally sinful to eat shellfish, work on the Sabbath, or look lustfully at a woman. The difference is?

cj x
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You know perfectly well what the difference is. There are no incidences of shellfish eater bashing. Oscar Wilde was not sent to prison for working on the Sabbath. If you don't want to have a serious discussion, please say so.
 
dafydd said:
You know perfectly well what the difference is. There are no incidences of shellfish eater bashing. Oscar Wilde was not sent to prison for working on the Sabbath. If you don't want to have a serious discussion, please say so.
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Yes gay people suffer violent abuse at times. Homosexuality was outlawed in England and Wales until 1969. What has that got to do with my point? Are you saying Christian, or more widely Abrahamic religions are the only cultures who have ever persecuted or made illegal homosexuality???!

cj x
 
jerome said:
Yes but why does being gay make you a sinner? It does
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dafydd said:
No it doesn't. Prejudice is a very bad thing..
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Er don't you think your editing here is unfortunate, given what I said was, and I have bolded the bit you quoted...

jerome said:
Yes but why does being gay make you a sinner? It does, but so does being straight, asexual or any other orientation you care to event. Being human makes you a sinner, as sin is ubiquitous, a defining element of the human condition. All have sinned and are worthy of death as the Good Book says. And we all die. Sin, death and taxes - the three human universals. As far as I can see in Pauline theology being gay is exactly the same as forgetting to call your mother on Mother's Day???

cj x
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I just note this because your framing of my words is rather misleading! How am I prejudiced here? Against humans?

cj x
 
cj.23 said:
Yes gay people suffer violent abuse at times. Homosexuality was outlawed in England and Wales until 1969. What has that got to do with my point? Are you saying Christian, or more widely Abrahamic religions are the only cultures who have ever persecuted or made illegal homosexuality???!

cj x
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No, I am saying that Christians cherry pick the bible and pick and choose bits out of the supposed holy word of god. That is why I have no respect for the beliefs of Christians, which is the topic of the thread. If somebody is violently anti-gay, that is their affair, but if they base it on the bible then they should be violently anti-shellfish eating too.
 
cj.23 said:
I just note this because your framing of my words is rather misleading! How am I prejudiced here? Against humans?

cj x
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No, but against gays. You said it was a sin. ( Begging the question of what a sin is, of course)
 
dafydd said:
No, I am saying that Christians cherry pick the bible and pick and choose bits out of the supposed holy word of god. That is why I have no respect for the beliefs of Christians, which is the topic of the thread. If somebody is violently anti-gay, that is their affair, but if they base it on the bible then they should be violently anti-shellfish eating too.
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Yes no disagreement there at least. I'm off to bash some mollusc lovers! :eek:

Er, hang on. I'm not pro-bashing either? So why do you seem to think I am?

cj x
 
dafydd said:
No, but against gays. You said it was a sin. ( Begging the question of what a sin is, of course)
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No I didn't. I said gays were sinners, as were straight asexual and any other sexual orientation people, because according to Christianity all humans are sinners. It's a default. I don't think I said being gay was a sin did I? Except to be gay I was presuming you to be human. Big Gay Al's dogs and two of my cats disprove this. You have got me there. :D

cj x
 
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