Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Rare Truth]

Also, to clear up the earlier issue, Zimmerman was never "cleared" by SFD Rescue. They waited for SPD to make the call on how Zimmerman would be transported. SPD offered Zimmerman transport to hospital while he was in custody and en route, which he declined.

This information can be found both in the SFD report - which is included in the discovery packet and in the recorded statement from SFD Paramaedic Kevin O'Rourke.

The police report said they cleared him.

What came later is inconsequential to the former discussion. Obviously you have two agencies saying two different things.

 

[LTC8K6]

Heck, the police gave two nearly completely different descriptions of what TM was wearing...

 

[johnny karate]

As far as I can tell, he did not lie to a Court.

He allowed his wife and lawyer to present material falsehoods in a court of law on his behalf.

If that's a particular hair you want to split, feel free. Most reasonable minded people don't buy. Like the judge, for instance, who sent Zimmerman's lying ass back to jail for his deception.

Lying is a big deal and it's wrong. What I'm saying is that everyone has done it and no one should be getting up on a high horse. Think about what will happen if your own credibility for something serious depends on whether or not you ever told a lie.

And that Zimmerman simply lied is, of course, not the issue. It's the nature of the lie and the venue in which he perpetrated it.

Yes, everyone has lied in their lives. Very few people lie to a judge under oath, or end up in jail because of their lies.

Actually, no. That story I believe relies on pictures of a bloody head. Which support the word, in this case, of the proven liar. Are you a proven liar, Johnny? I guess I am.

Zimmerman's bloody head =/= Martin banging it on the ground.

That Zimmerman's head was injured is not in dispute. It's how he received those injuries that is in question.

Well, considering that a witness saw Martin banging Z's head on the ground and then Z ended up with a bloody head, I'd say that's reaching. But then again, the witness is probably a proven liar, too.

No witness reported seeing anything of the sort. You've completely manufactured that.

I'm also wondering at this point if we should discount anything TM's father says because I guess he's also a proven liar. He's either lying that it wasn't his son screaming or he's lying that it was.......

Feel free to dismiss Martin's father all you want. I look forward to your explanation as to how that would be relevant to the case.

 

[Rare Truth]

Heck, the police gave two nearly completely different descriptions of what TM was wearing...

You noticed that too, eh? lol.

I can understand civilian witnesses giving innacurate clothing descriptions - but trained cops?

Anyway, it was amusing (in a huhhnnnggnnnnhhh? kind of way) when I first read that.

 

[Cylinder]

SPD wrote the word "cleared" in their report, which was what the whole dispute was about. Can we agree that SPD wrote the word "cleared" at least?

The word "cleared" does not appear in the SFD report. If the police used that term, they were being inexact. The SFD report clearly places the responsibility of transport to SPD. It's a tempest in a teapot, since no-one is claiming Zimmerman suffered life-threatening injury.

 

[johnny karate]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Zimmerman-Trayvon-Angela-Corey/2012/06/05/id/441305



Interesting stuff in there.

That is troubling, but it follows the theme of a prosecutor who is very happy to make these very public extrajudicial statements and improper associations - up to the point that proof is required by the court and by extension to the media and public at large. Of course, this action crosses the line from ommission to action.

Hard to believe that in a thread in which distrust of the media had been a consistent theme, an unsubstantiated story from a conservative media outlet known for their loose affiliation with the truth would be taken at face value.

 

[Rare Truth]

The word "cleared" does not appear in the SFD report. If the police used that term, they were being inexact. The SFD report clearly places the responsibility of transport to SPD. It's a tempest in a teapot, since no-one is claiming Zimmerman suffered life-threatening injury.

LOL...even with a DAMN PICTURE of the police report, (posted 3 times in the last hour) there are folks here saying the word cleared doesn't appear.

Too funny.

 

[Cylinder]

What came later is inconsequential to the former discussion. Obviously you have two agencies saying two different things.

I'm relying on the first hand, contemporaneous SFD Rescue report, rather than the SPD summary, which is second hand and removed in time.

 

[Unabogie]

The word "cleared" does not appear in the SFD report. If the police used that term, they were being inexact. The SFD report clearly places the responsibility of transport to SPD. It's a tempest in a teapot, since no-one is claiming Zimmerman suffered life-threatening injury.

Again, we're not talking about the SFD! We're talking about the police. I'm just trying to get everyone to agree on a point of fact, one which Crim seems to think is important. Rare Truth is referring to the SPD report, which says he described George as looked at, treated, then "cleared".

That's true, right?

Answer yes if all of these things are true, no if I got anything wrong.

1. Rare Truth was referring to the PD report.
2. The PD report used the word "cleared".
3. We have not seen the SFD report.
4. Rare Truth was NOT referring to that report.

Correct or incorrect?

 

[Cylinder]

Answer yes if all of these things are true, no if I got anything wrong.

1. Rare Truth was referring to the PD report.
2. The PD report used the word "cleared".
3. We have not seen the SFD report.
4. Rare Truth was NOT referring to that report.

Correct or incorrect?

No. The SFD Rescue report is in the discovery packet.

 

[Unabogie]

No. The SFD Rescue report is in the discovery packet.

Was that packet available at the time of this scrum? I didn't think so, but I could be wrong. At that time, all we had was the the police report.

Can you link to the SFD report and what date it was released?

Either way, Rare Truth was clearly referring to the SPD report, correct?

 

[johnny karate]

The report by Officer Timothy Smith, which is in the discovery pdf, contains the following sentence:

"Zimmerman was treated on scene by SFD for his injuries."

I guess that wraps that up.

Yes, the mystery of the claim never made by the person accused of making it has finally been resolved.

Seriously, go back and read that exchange. Rare Truth never claimed "Zimmerman was cleared without being treated, and had no injuries". There is some serious cognitive dissonance and megalomania going on there.

 

[Rare Truth]

I'm relying on the first hand, contemporaneous SFD Rescue report, rather than the SPD summary, which is second hand and removed in time.

Yes, that would be the SFD report (released a month after the prior discussion we were having) that stated:

"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding,"as reported by paramedic Michael Brandy.

 

[Rare Truth]

Yes, the mystery of the claim never made by the person accused of making it has finally been resolved.

Seriously, go back and read that exchange. Rare Truth never claimed "Zimmerman was cleared without being treated, and had no injuries". There is some serious cognitive dissonance and megalomania going on there.

You can say that again.

Man. This isn't that hard, folks.

 

[johnny karate]

Either way, Rare Truth was clearly referring to the SPD report, correct?

Absolutely. Rare Truth laid out the whole exchange right here. The lies and anger therein are bizarre to the point of being deranged.

 

[Toontown]

It's amazing how fast this abortion of a thread grows. Post after post, day after day.

 

[GWCarver]

This was put up by Elvis a while back, but here is the original source showing there is no doubt the paramedics thought Z was not OK:


"She said Zimmerman complained of feeling dizzy at one point and seemed impaired. Both responders said they thought police would take Zimmerman to a hospital for stitches to his head."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin20120517,0,7498893.story

 

[Rare Truth]

As long as we're on the subject...anybody figure out yet why the paramedics said Zimmerman was quiet and didn't say anything as he was being treated - yet the police report noted Zimmerman said loud enough to be "overheard" as he was being attended that "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

Mysterious, ainnit?

 

[Cylinder]

Yes, that would be the SFD report (released a month after the prior discussion we were having) that stated:

I don't know when the original conversation occurred, but the SFD Rescue report was in the original doscovery packet. It's the last 2 pages after the Neighborhood Watch materials. At any rate, it was clear to me, at least, after the ABC photo was released that Zimmerman would have been advised transport. Hospitals are quite keen on concussion screens.

"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding,"as reported by paramedic Michael Brandy.

Right. We've all seen the ABC photo of Zimmerman's bloody head and the close-up of his multiple injury sites. Minor bleeding is used here as a clinical term - bleeding that did not require kind of primary treatment. If you want to characterize the in situ photo of Zimmerman's head as minor bleeding, I'm fine with that. No-one's claiming that Zimmerman required fluids or a transfusion or anything.

 

[LTC8K6]

As long as we're on the subject...anybody figure out yet why the paramedics said Zimmerman was quiet and didn't say anything as he was being treated - yet the police report noted Zimmerman said loud enough to be "overheard" as he was being attended that "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

Mysterious, ainnit?

Not without more information.