Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Amazer]

Omara has to say words to that effect.

Agreed

I don't see any connection between being scared about your future and failing to immediately report some money given to you, and lying about a homicide.

I'd say that the incentive to lie about a homicide is rather greater then lying about 'some' money being given to you. And they did lie about the money.

I doubt any judges or jurors will either.

I've got no doubt that most judges and jurors will have no problem seeing the connection.

They made a mistake about the money and their bond. They tried to keep it because they were unable to make a living any more.

Not the smartest move. A mistake they might well live to regret.

That doesn't contradict the evidence in the death of TM.

Agreed, where it concerns the evidence that doesn't rely on testimony of GZ.

 

[LTC8K6]

When did GZ lie under oath again?

I keep missing that quote.

 

[Unabogie]

It would seem that GZ is rather prone to these emotions, and makes very poor decisions based on those emotions.

That right there is a fine insight and what I think is the crux of the case. George is easily swayed my fear and confusion, and in that state he's prone to making some truly horrible decisions.

I don't see how O'Mara thinks this helps. In fact, it just underlines why the guy ended up killing Trayvon Martin in the first place.

 

[Rare Truth]

The Court's ruling:

"They were well aware of the money that was available, well aware of the amounts that were in controversy, here as far as large amounts. Mr. Zimmerman cannot sit back as I use again the euphemism a potted palm and let his wife testify falsely before the court when he knew well in advance of the hearing the amounts of money in controversy. Nor can he allow his attorney stand up to make misrepresentations, not by your fault whatsoever Mr. O'Mara, you were completely candid and honest with the court as you have always been. Uh, and he can't sit back and obtain the benefits of a lower bond or circumstances based upon those material falsehoods and that's what they were. So at this time I revoke his bond and place him without bond status.

Find that good cause exists based upon the material rep - misrepresentations that the court relied upon. Order him to surrender himself within 48 hours to the Sheriff of Seminole County if he wants to explain himself subsequent to that you may reset this for a bond hearing to give him an opportunity to explain to the court what happened and at this time it would be important for him to testify about what transpired."

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That right there is a fine insight and what I think is the crux of the case. George is easily swayed my fear and confusion, and in that state he's prone to making some truly horrible decisions.

I don't see how O'Mara thinks this helps. In fact, it just underlines why the guy ended up killing Trayvon Martin in the first place.

That and his claim that TM was trying to kill him.

 

[Rare Truth]

https://www.scribd.com/doc/95894710/State-vs-Zimmerman-6-1-Supplemental-Discovery

Zimmy made over 150 phone calls in 8 days in prison. Yow. Those'll be released soon.

Shhhhhhould be interesting. Ayup.

 

[johnny karate]

The connection is HONESTY.

George has shown he does not possess that character trait.

It is truly mind-boggling to me that this very simple notion seems to escape some people.

It would seem that GZ is rather prone to these emotions, and makes very poor decisions based on those emotions.

That right there is a fine insight and what I think is the crux of the case. George is easily swayed my fear and confusion, and in that state he's prone to making some truly horrible decisions.

I don't see how O'Mara thinks this helps. In fact, it just underlines why the guy ended up killing Trayvon Martin in the first place.

Agreed. O'Mara is basically telling us that Zimmerman lied about the money as a panic move, and yet expects us to believe he didn't do the exact same thing in a situation that would be much more panic-inducing.

 

[marksman]

I agree. What this episode has done is made almost impossible to let GZ testify in his own defense. He let his wife offer false testimony. His misled his counsel in making representations to the court. He did it because he did not want to spend time in jail.

Which are exactly the same consequences he will be facing if he were to testify on his own behalf at his trial. Except instead of facing jail for the time it takes to get a trial, he'll be facing jail for the remainder of his natural life. I can't see any jury attirbuting much credibility to anything he says.

O'Mara's only viable strategy now is to simply argue that the prosecution won't be able to sustain its burden of proof. That said, give that the prosecution has a very high burden of proof, it's not a terrible strategy, and many a person has been acquitted without taking the stand in their own defense.

 

[BenBurch]

I agree. What this episode has done is made almost impossible to let GZ testify in his own defense. He let his wife offer false testimony. His misled his counsel in making representations to the court. He did it because he did not want to spend time in jail.

Which are exactly the same consequences he will be facing if he were to testify on his own behalf at his trial. Except instead of facing jail for the time it takes to get a trial, he'll be facing jail for the remainder of his natural life. I can't see any jury attirbuting much credibility to anything he says.

O'Mara's only viable strategy now is to simply argue that the prosecution won't be able to sustain its burden of proof. That said, give that the prosecution has a very high burden of proof, it's not a terrible strategy, and many a person has been acquitted without taking the stand in their own defense.

Good summary of the situation.

 

[Dcdrac]

I agree. What this episode has done is made almost impossible to let GZ testify in his own defense. He let his wife offer false testimony. His misled his counsel in making representations to the court. He did it because he did not want to spend time in jail.

Which are exactly the same consequences he will be facing if he were to testify on his own behalf at his trial. Except instead of facing jail for the time it takes to get a trial, he'll be facing jail for the remainder of his natural life. I can't see any jury attirbuting much credibility to anything he says.

O'Mara's only viable strategy now is to simply argue that the prosecution won't be able to sustain its burden of proof. That said, give that the prosecution has a very high burden of proof, it's not a terrible strategy, and many a person has been acquitted without taking the stand in their own defense.

This sums it up for me very well

 

[Amazer]

I agree. What this episode has done is made almost impossible to let GZ testify in his own defense. He let his wife offer false testimony. His misled his counsel in making representations to the court. He did it because he did not want to spend time in jail.

Which are exactly the same consequences he will be facing if he were to testify on his own behalf at his trial. Except instead of facing jail for the time it takes to get a trial, he'll be facing jail for the remainder of his natural life. I can't see any jury attirbuting much credibility to anything he says.

O'Mara's only viable strategy now is to simply argue that the prosecution won't be able to sustain its burden of proof. That said, give that the prosecution has a very high burden of proof, it's not a terrible strategy, and many a person has been acquitted without taking the stand in their own defense.

Good summary

 

[LTC8K6]

George needs Casey Anthony's defense team. She had zero credibility.

 

[Unabogie]

That and his claim that TM was trying to kill him.

Yeah, but coming from a known liar who makes decisions, as suggested by his own lawyer, based on fear, confusion, and a desire to stay out of jail?

Best of luck with that one, counselor.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Even GZ's own attorney is acknowledging that he knowingly allowed the judge to be mislead so I have 0 remaining doubt at this point that's exactly what he did and that there are is no extenuating context or circumstances. I think GZ is a supreme idiot. Until now I've felt the evidence supports what we've been told he said but frankly this makes me nauseous. Well, at least he did finally tell his attorney...5 days later! Way to go GZ, what a great way to help your attorney defend you!

I think everything was going in his favor, and the fact that the judge let him out clearly showed that. He just managed to totally **** himself over nothing, over ******* trinkets which is what 135K is in the total scheme of things related to this trial.

And how ******** stupid could he be, not to realize every word was being monitored?!

In the public sections of the forum, swearing must be completely masked.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

The court has known since shortly after the bond hearing, about how much was in the account. O'mara reported it. The fact that there was a lot of money in the account around the time of the bond hearing cannot be news to the court. O'mara took charge of those funds almost immediately.[/url]

Yes, he took charge of them after GZ told him about them 5 days later. Had GZ told him when he should have if he had a single brain cell in his head, Omara would have known exactly what to do, GZ would still have gotten bond, and GZ would still be walking around a free man, with a large percentage of public opinion, even if not a majority, having shifted in his favor.

 

[marksman]

Yes, he took charge of them after GZ told him about them 5 days later. Had GZ told him when he should have if he had a single brain cell in his head, Omara would have known exactly what to do, GZ would still have gotten bond, and GZ would still be walking around a free man, with a large percentage of public opinion, even if not a majority, having shifted in his favor.

It's worse than that. I have no doubt that O'Mara would have told GZ that the most important thing is to be completely honest with his attorney and to not hold anything back. GZ's father is a retired magistrate. I'm certain his father would have told him how important it is to listen to his attorney.

He didn't.

Now, not only has GZ lost his freedom (even if that's only temporary), he has lost his credibility. And when you're on trial for murder, credibility is much much more important than public opinion.

 

[Kaosium]

It is truly mind-boggling to me that this very simple notion seems to escape some people.

How does George not disclosing that a bunch of people sent him money have anything to do with the case? If he had disclosed it, what would have been the effect? A somewhat higher bond, presumably to prevent his ability to flee? He didn't flee, did he? So in the end it was meaningless anyway, and it did get disclosed after he talked to his lawyer.

When has a legal defense fund ever been used as an excuse for a fishing expedition in order to impugn the integrity of the accused? What do you suppose that implies about the quality of 'evidence' against him in the murder trial--which is what actually matters?

Agreed. O'Mara is basically telling us that Zimmerman lied about the money as a panic move, and yet expects us to believe he didn't do the exact same thing in a situation that would be much more panic-inducing.

He had mere minutes to come up with a story that would be cross-checked with people who had witnessed it and there was physical evidence all over as well as recordings of his 911 call. It was found by the police after a thorough investigation to be consistent with the physical evidence and the preponderance of witness testimony, especially the part that has him on the bottom getting beaten and yelling for help well before the gun came out and was used. John, the closest witness to the struggle, was himself surprised that Trayvon didn't let up when John said he was calling 911, so intent Trayvon was on continuing the attack--where he had the advantage.

One doesn't need George Zimmerman's testimony to determine more or less what happened. His wounds are evidence of him getting beaten, his definitely being on the bottom when John looked out is strongly suggestive of who was doing the yelling, the fact they met at all after TM took off running when he could have easily escaped had that been his aim is again indicative of who desired the encounter.

As such whether George Zimmerman disclosed to the prosecution (which he would have every reason to believe is corrupt) just how much money people were sending him isn't evidence of much of anything other than George Zimmerman doesn't trust the prosecution. Why should he? Telling the truth and cooperating throughout got him a bounty placed on his head and then singled out for prosecution due to all the liars lying about him. At worst this was a lie to protect himself and his family, no one else could have been harmed.

That's not something that can be said about all the people who've lied about him, they wanted to (or knew it might) hurt someone, George Zimmerman, which puts him on a higher ethical plane than (many of) his contemners.

 

[Rare Truth]

How does George not disclosing that a bunch of people sent him money have anything to do with the case? If he had disclosed it, what would have been the effect? A somewhat higher bond, presumably to prevent his ability to flee? He didn't flee, did he? So in the end it was meaningless anyway, and it did get disclosed after he talked to his lawyer.

When has a legal defense fund ever been used as an excuse for a fishing expedition in order to impugn the integrity of the accused? What do you suppose that implies about the quality of 'evidence' against him in the murder trial--which is what actually matters?




He had mere minutes to come up with a story that would be cross-checked with people who had witnessed it and there was physical evidence all over as well as recordings of his 911 call. It was found by the police after a thorough investigation to be consistent with the physical evidence and the preponderance of witness testimony, especially the part that has him on the bottom getting beaten and yelling for help well before the gun came out and was used. John, the closest witness to the struggle, was himself surprised that Trayvon didn't let up when John said he was calling 911, so intent Trayvon was on continuing the attack--where he had the advantage.

One doesn't need George Zimmerman's testimony to determine more or less what happened. His wounds are evidence of him getting beaten, his definitely being on the bottom when John looked out is strongly suggestive of who was doing the yelling, the fact they met at all after TM took off running when he could have easily escaped had that been his aim is again indicative of who desired the encounter.

As such whether George Zimmerman disclosed to the prosecution (which he would have every reason to believe is corrupt) just how much money people were sending him isn't evidence of much of anything other than George Zimmerman doesn't trust the prosecution. Why should he? Telling the truth and cooperating throughout got him a bounty placed on his head and then singled out for prosecution due to all the liars lying about him. At worst this was a lie to protect himself and his family, no one else could have been harmed.

That's not something that can be said about all the people who've lied about him, they wanted to (or knew it might) hurt someone, George Zimmerman, which puts him on a higher ethical plane than (many of) his contemners.

Oh. My. Gawd.

Talk about a pantload.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Now, not only has GZ lost his freedom (even if that's only temporary), he has lost his credibility. And when you're on trial for murder, credibility is much much more important than public opinion.

That was my point about fair amount of public perception having turned in his favor. Now he has lost a lot of that good will because his credibility has been damaged.

 

[Kaosium]

It's worse than that. I have no doubt that O'Mara would have told GZ that the most important thing is to be completely honest with his attorney and to not hold anything back. GZ's father is a retired magistrate. I'm certain his father would have told him how important it is to listen to his attorney.

He didn't.

Now, not only has GZ lost his freedom (even if that's only temporary), he has lost his credibility. And when you're on trial for murder, credibility is much much more important than public opinion.

So do you suppose they will release him again? If they do, would that suggest that if this failure to disclose the money being sent him didn't preclude that from happening, it's probably not meaningful enough to impact on his murder trial?

After all, had George Zimmerman ensured that this was disclosed, how would anything be different at this juncture?