Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[GWCarver]

So she's aware of the web site, she knows who is managing it, but conveniently doesn't know how much money was collected? If you believe that then I have a bridge for sale.

Actually, I am at a loss to offer an explanation for this. I just became aware of it because all or part was broadcast during a CNN commercial and wasn't in the transcripts. I gotta say, it doesn't look good for Shelly and Z. There just seem to be too many denials for them all to be explained away. I wouldn't expect O'Mara to request another bond hearing unless he has some answers.

Maybe I'll come up with something, but I'm just not seeing anything right now.

 

[KatieG]

From the Orlando Sentinel

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...601_1_bond-issue-scott-ponce-george-zimmerman

Six weeks after he ordered murder suspect George Zimmerman released on bail, a judge on Friday ordered him locked up again, stopping just short of calling the defendant and his wife liars.

The issue was money: At a bond hearing April 20, Shellie Zimmerman, the defendant's wife, had testified under oath that the couple didn't have any savings when, in reality, they had more than $135,000, with more flooding in from supporters who were making contributions via a website Zimmerman set up.


"I don't know what other word to use," said prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda. "They lied."

He called their acts "an egregious violation of the law."

He had made the same allegation before, at a hearing April 27, and the judge had brushed it aside, but this time the prosecutor had tangible proof: Transcripts of several telephone calls between Zimmerman and his wife while Zimmerman was locked up at the Seminole County Jail.

In them, the couple talk about their finances and transferring money between accounts. During one call April 16, shortly after Shellie Zimmerman had left a credit union, they talked about using that money to post his bail.

"That's what it's for," she told him, according to a portion of the transcript cited by de la Rionda.

Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. was clearly unhappy.

There was no doubt in his mind, he said, that both George and Shellie Zimmerman knew they had access to pile of money. They were spending it, transferring it and talking about it on a recorded jail phone line.

"They were well aware of the amounts available," the judge said.

 

[Amazer]

Actually, I am at a loss to offer an explanation for this. I just became aware of it because all or part was broadcast during a CNN commercial and wasn't in the transcripts. I gotta say, it doesn't look good for Shelly and Z. There just seem to be too many denials for them all to be explained away. I wouldn't expect O'Mara to request another bond hearing unless he has some answers.

Maybe I'll come up with something, but I'm just not seeing anything right now.

Well, I suppose that Shelly and Z could have had an 'old fashioned' type of relationship, one where the woman just don't get involved in financial matters.

The above does sound a bit far fetched though in this day and age.

ETA: I see that KatieG's post puts this theory to bed.

 

[Dan O.]

Can monies solicited for defense be used for bail?

SZ says "That's what it's for."

But then she could be lying.

 

[GWCarver]

Well, I suppose that Shelly and Z could have had an 'old fashioned' type of relationship, one where the woman just don't get involved in financial matters.

The above does sound a bit far fetched though in this day and age.

ETA: I see that KatieG's post puts this theory to bed.

The prosecutor has tapes of them discussing amounts of money in an account, and Shelly wondering aloud if they should put up 100 thousand dollars of it for bond. That means they were almost certainly discussing one of the PayPal accounts that had been set up. I really don't know how many there were. Two at least, maybe three if the first one was ever actually on line.

 

[Amazer]

The prosecutor has tapes of them discussing amounts of money in an account, and Shelly wondering aloud if they should put up 100 thousand dollars of it for bond. That means they were almost certainly discussing one of the PayPal accounts that had been set up. I really don't know how many there were. Two at least, maybe three if the first one was ever actually on line.

Any idea what the possible impact might be on the main trial?

 

[Rare Truth]

So she's aware of the web site, she knows who is managing it, but conveniently doesn't know how much money was collected? If you believe that then I have a bridge for sale.

Paypal sends an email every time money is received. The email had to have been flooded.
She absolutely KNEW.

 

[GWCarver]

Any idea what the possible impact might be on the main trial?

I wouldn't think it would have any impact down the road. Like I just posted on another forum, I can't imagine a judge sentencing someone to life in prison for the crime of his wife misrepresenting - if, indeed she did - how much money was in his PayPal account.

Also, those were very scary times for Z, his family, the witnesses, and many of the people in Sanford. Recall that Z was hiding at an unknown location and then went directly to jail. That doesn't explain his wife's testimony, but clearly there would have been a lot of distractions. However, clearly the judge feels like he has been lied to, and that is a big problem. I think I want to hear what they discussed on other taped phone calls before throwing in the towel on this one, though.

 

[johnny karate]

Any idea what the possible impact might be on the main trial?

It goes to Zimmerman's credibility. He's basically been caught red-handed engaging in a deception. The prosecution can use that to undermine any aspects of his story which rely on his word alone, e.g. the crucial lost minute or so in which the altercation between him and Martin began.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Awesome. You keep splitting those hairs. I'm not buying it, and neither did the judge.

The law seems to fall into two broad categories.

Hair splitting and technicalities, like if a specific procedure was not followed or a t was not crossed on a form, causing everything to collapse like like a house of cards, and broad sweeping generalizations, like where the clause anything related can mean anything the judge wants.
I don't know what all this stuff falls under.

Either way, GZ continues to prove himself to be not the sharpest pencil in the box ... not even close. O'mara does raise an interesting question of why bother mortgaging your house (parents house), etc, if you have a pile of paypal money. I can't think of a good reason.

If I were to hazard a guess, I say GZ will get a new bond hearing, the state won't press any charges for all the 'oversight' of the money, and the judge will grant him bond again, in a higher amount. I don't see him sitting in jail until trial.

 

[Mumbles]

OK - I admit. I was being silly. I was playing along with the media pictures of the 12 year old looking innocent little boy we were initially led to believe TM was. But my point is that if that was who TM really was, I could believe he might be afraid of some guy following him. Now that I know that's not who TM really was, not so much.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/TrayvonMartinHooded.jpg

Doesn't really look like a twelve year old to me, and this is the usual picture that was used in protests and most media coverage. Then again, we don't know if *any* of the various pictures were of him at 12, as far as I can tell.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Changed hotlink to regular link.

 

[Mumbles]

It goes to Zimmerman's credibility. He's basically been caught red-handed engaging in a deception. The prosecution can use that to undermine any aspects of his story which rely on his word alone, e.g. the crucial lost minute or so in which the altercation between him and Martin began.

That was my opinion of the bond hearing as well. Given that the only reliable evidence of self-defense we have is Zimmerman's statement, actively lying, or abetting in a lie, to a judge in the case wouldn't help him out at all. And it certainly wouldn't help if his basic story doesn't make sense, as is the case with the stories his various defenders have put forth in the media.

 

[GWCarver]

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/TrayvonMartinHooded.jpg[/qimg]

Doesn't really look like a twelve year old to me, and this is the usual picture that was used in protests and most media coverage. Then again, we don't know if *any* of the various pictures were of him at 12, as far as I can tell.

Well, let's just say he didn't look 6'3" (his height according to his mother) in the picture that was circulated by the media for weeks, even by Fox News. (You know, the one that tricked the President.) So, I would say there was some major deception on the part of Crump and his media campaign, regardless of how old he was when the picture was taken.

 

[bookworm]

That may be not be a direct quote from the judge, but he certainly indicated he thought something dishonest had taken place.

Rare Truth's jubilation over this development may be rubbing some posters the wrong way, but the underlying point is valid. A blatant deception took place, and it places Zimmerman's credibility into serious doubt.

I believe a blatant deception took place and is still taking place on the part of Crump and Sharpton and also TM's family, specifically his father. And I sincerely hope the people who are buying into this never find themselves at the wrong end of this kind of deception.

 

[bookworm]

Awesome. You keep splitting those hairs. I'm not buying it, and neither did the judge.

Not saying that it's right, but it seems to me that most people of limited means would try desparately to get out of jail spending the absolute minimum they had to while saving as much as they could for the defense they know they'll need.

 

[bookworm]

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/TrayvonMartinHooded.jpg[/qimg]

Doesn't really look like a twelve year old to me, and this is the usual picture that was used in protests and most media coverage. Then again, we don't know if *any* of the various pictures were of him at 12, as far as I can tell.

Sorry - try again. I seem to remember being inundated with a cute kid in a red baseball type shirt. I'll try to find a link but I'm not the best at linking. I believe this one came out later.

 

[Robrob]

Others do it too makes for a lousy defense

Like I said, I wasn't defending it, only mentioning it wasn't a particularly unique ploy. Similar to claiming your client was framed, etc...

OK - I admit. I was being silly. I was playing along with the media pictures of the 12 year old looking innocent little boy we were initially led to believe TM was. But my point is that if that was who TM really was, I could believe he might be afraid of some guy following him. Now that I know that's not who TM really was, not so much.

Funny how you seem to completely ignore the various bogus pictures floated about the internet (with no other purpose than to present a dead 17 year old as a thug) and instead choose to focus on pictures you "think" made that dead kid look younger than you wanted to believe?

 

[bookworm]

Like I said, I wasn't defending it, only mentioning it wasn't a particularly unique ploy. Similar to claiming your client was framed, etc...



Funny how you seem to completely ignore the various bogus pictures floated about the internet (with no other purpose than to present a dead 17 year old as a thug) and instead choose to focus on pictures you "think" made that dead kid look younger than you wanted to believe?

In all fairness those pictures came later to show TM as he really looked at the time.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I think I want to hear what they discussed on other taped phone calls before throwing in the towel on this one, though.

Hmm....considering how we started this case thinking that a gun toting racist had chased down a 12-year old kid and then shot him in cold blood, and the racist police department let him off because his Dad was a judge, only to learn that there was a teensie weensie more to it than that, yes, I think I'd like to hear a little more about this than what the prosecution has to say about it.

O'mara does raise an interesting question of why bother mortgaging your house (parents house), etc, if you have a pile of paypal money. I can't think of a good reason.

I suppose if they wanted to keep the money a secret, that would be a pretty good reason! However the stupidity required to think they could do that is beyond my ability to comprehend .

For now I'll wait to hear the entire story but I think they better come up with some good explanations.

 

[GWCarver]

Like I said, I wasn't defending it, only mentioning it wasn't a particularly unique ploy. Similar to claiming your client was framed, etc...



Funny how you seem to completely ignore the various bogus pictures floated about the internet (with no other purpose than to present a dead 17 year old as a thug) and instead choose to focus on pictures you "think" made that dead kid look younger than you wanted to believe?

Would you like a link to real pictures that some might think makes TM look like a thug? Here's one:

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/did-trayvon-martin-referee-school-fights