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WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

No, the link is only to an image.

As I think you saw, because it's a very lengthy image (the entire article) it may end up scrunched over on the left hand side (depending on the browser you're using), but if you hover your mouse cursor over it you'll see it turn into a magnifying glass icon. Left-click, the image should expand and you can read the article.

What you can't do, though, is click any of the links, because what you're looking at is still just an image, not the original web page. So if you click on something it'll revert to its original scrunched-down size over on the left (just click it again to bring it back, though).

Yes, this. I can open the .png file fine. No problem there.

My problem was, I forgot it was a screen grab, and tried to click a link, to no avail.

It's been a long week, what can I say.
 
Yes, this. I can open the .png file fine. No problem there.

My problem was, I forgot it was a screen grab, and tried to click a link, to no avail.

It's been a long week, what can I say.

Sorry to derail, but I have to poke gentle fun at Tri here ;):p. That is exactly the joke we play on new hires where I work. We tell them their first task is to fill out some online "paperwork", but we hide all the desktop icons and leave nothing on the screen but a wallpaper screenshot of the HR website. It drives them nuts that they can't click on links or type in the text fields! :D

Then, because our team does technology support, we tell them that their new task is to "fix" the problem. :degrin:
 
Sorry to derail, but I have to poke gentle fun at Tri here ;):p. That is exactly the joke we play on new hires where I work. We tell them their first task is to fill out some online "paperwork", but we hide all the desktop icons and leave nothing on the screen but a wallpaper screenshot of the HR website. It drives them nuts that they can't click on links or type in the text fields! :D

Then, because our team does technology support, we tell them that their new task is to "fix" the problem. :degrin:

No problem. I'm working on about 10 hours sleep since Sunday between work, school, family health issues, family additions (YEY!!!) and the like, i've been stretched thinner than a truther's argument. Tonight I am trying to finish my design for our kitchen remodel, and I put the fridge right next to the stove.....Not a good place BTW. Ugg.....gotta be done tomorrow.

Oh, and I hate you for that prank. Gets me damn near every time!! :mad: :D
 
...
Btw (frankly) I don’t really understand what I see in Appendix G in Jim Millette’s preliminary report (Statistical Phase X-ray Mapping). What is a “phase” here? Almond? Sunstealer? Oystein?

How is that hard to grasp? A "phase" is an area with a characteristic quantitative distribution of elements.

Due to the resolution of this scan, which is too low to pick up individual pigments, you see that all five "interesting" elements C, O, Al, Si and Fe appear pretty much everywhere (with the exception of the C-only phase, which is mostly outside of the chip and simply shows the carbon tape that the chip attached to; interesting in context of the most recent posts: Millette picks up the sample holder, but apparently sees no Al there...)

The five phases other than C-only are organized by the amounts of Al, Si and Fe relative to one another. 44% of the total area (Phases 1+6) shows Al and Si in about equal amounts (that's 66% of the area that's not primarily C). In 3.24% (4.8%), iron dominates. In 19.5% (29%, Phases 3+4), silicon dominates. But nowhere does aluminium dominate, so that's why Millette says there is "No aluminum-only phase detected".

But the fact that Si > Al in about a quarter of the chip tells me that this particular chip has significant SiO2, so it is not a LaClede chip.
 
Aha, thanks, Oystein, I hope that I understand:o) This is not a trivial matter, I would say.

Anyway, this Jim Millette's mapping shows basically even distribution of phases (therefore pigments) throughout this swollen chip, which is in distinct contrast with mapping of swollen MEK chip in Bentham paper. We don't know what kind of paint is analyzed in Appendix G, so no comparison is possible, but such homogeneous/even "structure" of swollen paint chip seems to be more realistic.

Btw, isn't better to move any such debate to Paint thread or Millette study thread?
 
Aha, thanks, Oystein, I hope that I understand:o) This is not a trivial matter, I would say.
I am sure you do understand.
Correct, it's not really trivial. There must be implicit threasholds that distinguish the phases: Where does "Al and Si about equal" end, and "Si > Al" begin? Etc. There could be some leeway to move such criteria around, even to the point of "creating" the sort of result you "want", but I'd think Millette uses some software that facilitates this kind of analysis and simply threw in some standard settings. Lazyness rules the day here. He basically had one question in mind: Is there any region where Al dominates to the point that there COULD be elemental Al, and I think there is no way you could tweak the levers such that any apparent Al comes out.

Anyway, this Jim Millette's mapping shows basically even distribution of phases (therefore pigments) throughout this swollen chip, which is in distinct contrast with mapping of swollen MEK chip in Bentham paper. We don't know what kind of paint is analyzed in Appendix G, so no comparison is possible, but such homogeneous/even "structure" of swollen paint chip seems to be more realistic.
Yes.

Btw, isn't better to move any such debate to Paint thread or Millette study thread?
Yes.
I had intended to post my previous reply in the other thread but then forgot to do it when I got around to actually replying (when I open JREF, I first read several threads so I can have a glimpse at those posters I have on ignore, in case an interesting debate ensues; then when I log in I return to the threads I am currently most interested in to post).

I'll report it ;)
 
I am sure you do understand.
Correct, it's not really trivial. There must be implicit threasholds that distinguish the phases: Where does "Al and Si about equal" end, and "Si > Al" begin? Etc. There could be some leeway to move such criteria around, even to the point of "creating" the sort of result you "want", but I'd think Millette uses some software that facilitates this kind of analysis and simply threw in some standard settings. Lazyness rules the day here. He basically had one question in mind: Is there any region where Al dominates to the point that there COULD be elemental Al, and I think there is no way you could tweak the levers such that any apparent Al comes out.

Most of the vendors who do X-ray analysis software provide these phase identification protocols. They generally use multivariate statistics to sort and group the data. First step is principle component analysis, which identifies two or more vectors with the highest covariance. Then the data are transformed about the vectors. Then the transformed data is clustered using kmeans or some other algorithm.

The purpose of this process is to summarize the data in some simple, easy to understand way. Looking at half a dozen x-ray maps will make your eyes square over after a while, so this method makes it easier to group similar phases together and make a single color overlay that shows all of the important data.
 
To Chris Mohr, Oystein and others who may be still interested:

If you have not noticed: in Oystein's blog, there is a discussion with two truthers.

One of them, Poseidon, is perhaps only "semi-truther", he is qualified and educated and a debate with him is basically fruitful and interesting. He accepted Laclede paint as the material of red-gray chips (a) to (d) and he has "only" problem to accept that no CD of WTC was performed at all.

The second truther is Anonym alias Ziggy (banned now in The911Forum), who is really very tough and devoted "nanotruther". After thorough "discussion" with him, it is again quite clear that microspheres visible on burned chips and shown in Fig. 20 (Bentham paper) are still the "weapons of the last resort" - and not only to him. And we should admit that the formation of these microspheres has not been fully explained by any debunker so far (although several hypotheses were proposed). Ziggy basically objects that no paper exists in which the formation of similar microspheres was described in similar paint or material after heating to 700 degrees C in air.

Here, only further experiments on genuine red-gray chips from WTC dust can be helpful, to convince some more (well… few) truthers. I know well that it is not necessary or so, but let me just think about it again.

Oystein has pointed many times (not only during discussion with Ziggy) that it does not make sense to replicate DSC measurement and to look for microspheres after heating, since Bentham team forgot to inform us what was the original composition/appearance of chips heated in DSC machine.

Still, I would say that if Laclede primer chips prevail among red-gray chips investigated by both Harrit and Millette (which we do not know but it can be reasonably expected) , basically all burned chips shown in Fig. 20 can be Laclede paint. In all of them, microspheres were formed, and it seems to be improbable that in several different primer paints, the same/very similar microspheres can be formed.

Therefore, I think that the “mystery” of spheres could be solved, if Jim Millette heats some chips with the composition/structure corresponding to Laclede primer and looks if some spheres are created. Here, I would choose some chips, for which XEDS indicating Laclede was measured on cross-sections. No DSC device is needed, just some oven and a good microscope. Such additional experiments would be simple and cheap.

Here I would like to repeat what I think about these spheres.
First of all, we have no real proof that they are really iron–rich in sense that they mostly contain significantly less of oxygen than iron oxides (except Fig. 21). They can be generally just spheres of iron oxides contaminated with several stuffs from the paint and/or chip surface contaminants.

Sunstealer thinks that they are not formed from the paint itself, but basically from the gray layers of attached rusted steel. And he can be easily right, since gray layers are “missing” in Fig. 20 and, instead, just those spheres are seen. Problem is that melting of iron oxides from gray layers is not really expected at such temperature (I think). At higher temperatures above 500 degrees C, iron oxides can form some lower-melting eutectics with paint pigments (in the case of Laclede with metakaolin formed from kaolinite), but frankly, I have not found any such eutectic in the literature so far. E.g. here, all eutectics of iron oxides and aluminosilicates seem to melt above ca 900 degrees. Of course, my literature search was far from completion and perhaps I simply do not understand how such mixtures of inorganics can behave on microscopic level. Moreover, according to Fig. 25, spheres contain additional elements /stuffs, which can further decrease the melting temperature. Also, we cannot exclude the possibility that spheres are formed from the paint itself.

Notably, Henryco did not find any new spheres in his chips heated up to 900 degrees C, but he found some objects with metallic shine (not really spheres) in unheated chips. They can be also just pieces of rust.

Anyway, for any meaningful heating experiments, only chips with distinct gray layers must be chosen.

What can be the results of such heating of chips corresponding to Laclede ?
1) Microspheres are clearly formed. Then, chips burned by Bentham team were mostly Laclede and our victory is complete and total:o)
2) Something like microspheres (similar rounded objects) is formed, but not everywhere and not in all chips. Still, this would be very good result.
3) No spheres are formed. Then, chips shown on Fig. 20 should not be Laclede primer chips.


Chris: What I’m trying to say: for such additional heating experiments, I’m willing to pay some additional bucks (although not very much:o).
But currently, I have still the same main message to Jim Millette: Jim, please, try to assign some particular chips, in which epoxy binder was proven by FTIR, to some chips, for which XEDS measured on cross-section basically corresponded to Laclede paint. This would be a key finding for us, “Laclede paint lovers”, who mostly paid for this study:o)
 
Last edited:
To Chris Mohr, Oystein and others who may be still interested:

If you have not noticed: in Oystein's blog, there is a discussion with two truthers.

One of them, Poseidon, is perhaps only "semi-truther", he is qualified and educated and a debate with him is basically fruitful and interesting. He accepted Laclede paint as the material of red-gray chips (a) to (d) and he has "only" problem to accept that no CD of WTC was performed at all.

The second truther is Anonym alias Ziggy (banned now in The911Forum), who is really very tough and devoted "nanotruther". After thorough "discussion" with him, it is again quite clear that microspheres visible on burned chips and shown in Fig. 20 (Bentham paper) are still the "weapons of the last resort" - and not only to him. And we should admit that the formation of these microspheres has not been fully explained by any debunker so far (although several hypotheses were proposed). Ziggy basically objects that no paper exists in which the formation of similar microspheres was described in similar paint or material after heating to 700 degrees C in air.

Here, only further experiments on genuine red-gray chips from WTC dust can be helpful, to convince some more (well… few) truthers. I know well that it is not necessary or so, but let me just think about it again.

Oystein has pointed many times (not only during discussion with Ziggy) that it does not make sense to replicate DSC measurement and to look for microspheres after heating, since Bentham team forgot to inform us what was the original composition/appearance of chips heated in DSC machine.

Still, I would say that if Laclede primer chips prevail among red-gray chips investigated by both Harrit and Millette (which we do not know but it can be reasonably expected) , basically all burned chips shown in Fig. 20 can be Laclede paint. In all of them, microspheres were formed, and it seems to be improbable that in several different primer paints, the same/very similar microspheres can be formed.

Therefore, I think that the “mystery” of spheres could be solved, if Jim Millette heats some chips with the composition/structure corresponding to Laclede primer and looks if some spheres are created. Here, I would choose some chips, for which XEDS indicating Laclede was measured on cross-sections. No DSC device is needed, just some oven and a good microscope. Such additional experiments would be simple and cheap.

Here I would like to repeat what I think about these spheres.
First of all, we have no real proof that they are really iron–rich in sense that they mostly contain significantly less of oxygen than iron oxides (except Fig. 21). They can be generally just spheres of iron oxides contaminated with several stuffs from the paint and/or chip surface contaminants.

Sunstealer thinks that they are not formed from the paint itself, but basically from the gray layers of attached rusted steel. And he can be easily right, since gray layers are “missing” in Fig. 20 and, instead, just those spheres are seen. Problem is that melting of iron oxides from gray layers is not really expected at such temperature (I think). At higher temperatures above 500 degrees C, iron oxides can form some lower-melting eutectics with paint pigments (in the case of Laclede with metakaolin formed from kaolinite), but frankly, I have not found any such eutectic in the literature so far. E.g. here, all eutectics of iron oxides and aluminosilicates seem to melt above ca 900 degrees. Of course, my literature search was far from completion and perhaps I simply do not understand how such mixtures of inorganics can behave on microscopic level. Moreover, according to Fig. 25, spheres contain additional elements /stuffs, which can further decrease the melting temperature. Also, we cannot exclude the possibility that spheres are formed from the paint itself.

Notably, Henryco did not find any new spheres in his chips heated up to 900 degrees C, but he found some objects with metallic shine (not really spheres) in unheated chips. They can be also just pieces of rust.

Anyway, for any meaningful heating experiments, only chips with distinct gray layers must be chosen.

What can be the results of such heating of chips corresponding to Laclede ?
1) Microspheres are clearly formed. Then, chips burned by Bentham team were mostly Laclede and our victory is complete and total:o)
2) Something like microspheres (similar rounded objects) is formed, but not everywhere and not in all chips. Still, this would be very good result.
3) No spheres are formed. Then, chips shown on Fig. 20 should not be Laclede primer chips.


Chris: What I’m trying to say: for such additional heating experiments, I’m willing to pay some additional bucks (although not very much:o).
But currently, I have still the same main message to Jim Millette: Jim, please, try to assign some particular chips, in which epoxy binder was proven by FTIR, to some chips, for which XEDS measured on cross-section basically corresponded to Laclede paint. This would be a key finding for us, “Laclede paint lovers”, who mostly paid for this study:o)
Are Laclede samples, painted on the same substrate, available from some non-WTC source, in order to demonstrate the sphere formation will happen regardless of origin?
 
LSSBB: very probably yes, but such info can be available only from PPG Industries (probable manufacturer of this paint).
And if someone is willing to ask them, I would strongly recommend not to mention 911 events at all, and pretend (e.g.) some interest on technical details concerning old skyscrapers/buildings or so:cool:
 
I'd say probably not though.

The exact [LaClede primer] formulation could not be reproduced due to current environmental considerations.
NCSTAR 1-6B p.21 (57 of PDF)
 
I'd say probably not though.

The exact [LaClede primer] formulation could not be reproduced due to current environmental considerations.
NCSTAR 1-6B p.21 (57 of PDF)

Yes, because the use of strontium chromate is now forbiden in paint.

;)
 
Ivan,
Post 628 above is now forwarded to Jim Millette. He just got back from a business trip this afternoon. I know he said he planned to look at the iron rich spheres and whether they are created by these chips. Your post may give him more ideas of how to carry forth with this.
 
Nano-bombs as a Satellite Propulsion

It is most unfortunate that Dr. Millette chose to avoid subjecting his dust samples to temperatures above 400C.

http://www.wissenschaft-aktuell.de/artikel/Nano_Bomben_als_Satelliten_Antrieb1771015588124.html

Google Translated Extracts

published December 7, 2011

Report in the journal "Advanced Functional Materials". said:
"...These high-explosive structures responded to around 400 degrees and could pushbutton a drive to deliver satellites. About this unusual and diverse product energy source, the researchers report in the journal 'Advanced Functional Materials'...About this, the particles combined into highly explosive structures, the Nanothermite... the Séverac team was able to control the ignition temperature of their nano-bombs. Propelled at temperatures between 400C and 500C, the individual components react with each other and [unintelligible] abruptly released up to 1,800 joules per gram of thermal explosion... Because of their high energy density and low weight, the researchers now propose an application of their nano-bombs as auxiliary propulsion for spacecraft. A few hundred grams would be enough to move an artificial earth satellite on a different trajectory. But even on Earth, they have numerous applications possible, as little explosions could produce in a short time temperatures of up to 3,000 degrees. Toxic chemicals could be controlled burned it or refractory metal alloys welded together purposefully..."

MM
 
Wow.................This is startling. Can you explain how this has anything to do with 9/11 (and the Harrit paper)?

(this is pathetic, even for you)

:rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with 9/11. The article is about a mixture of aluminum and copperoxide (CuO) linked to DNA-molecules. It seems that MM tries to fool us once again.
 
Ivan,
Post 628 above is now forwarded to Jim Millette. He just got back from a business trip this afternoon. I know he said he planned to look at the iron rich spheres and whether they are created by these chips. Your post may give him more ideas of how to carry forth with this.

OK, thanks, Chris:cool:
 
"It is most unfortunate that Dr. Millette chose to avoid subjecting his dust samples to temperatures above 400C."

http://www.wissenschaft-aktuell.de/artikel/Nano_Bomben_als_Satelliten_Antrieb1771015588124.html

Google Translated Extracts

Recently published in December 7, 2011

Report in the Science Journal "Advanced Functional Materials" said:
"...These high-explosive structures responded to around 400 degrees and could pushbutton a drive to deliver satellites. About this unusual and diverse product energy source, the researchers report in the journal 'Advanced Functional Materials'...About this, the particles combined into highly explosive structures, the Nanothermite... the Séverac team was able to control the ignition temperature of their nano-bombs. Propelled at temperatures between 400C and 500C, the individual components react with each other and [unintelligible] abruptly released up to 1,800 joules per gram of thermal explosion... Because of their high energy density and low weight, the researchers now propose an application of their nano-bombs as auxiliary propulsion for spacecraft. A few hundred grams would be enough to move an artificial earth satellite on a different trajectory. But even on Earth, they have numerous applications possible, as little explosions could produce in a short time temperatures of up to 3,000 degrees. Toxic chemicals could be controlled burned it or refractory metal alloys welded together purposefully..."
"Wow.................This is startling. Can you explain how this has anything to do with 9/11 (and the Harrit paper)?

(this is pathetic, even for you)

:rolleyes:
"

Yes it is startling, and it is not a study of DNA.

It does appear to use DNA-directed assembly to produce the 'high energy nanocomposites', also referred to as 'nanothermite' in the Report.

The Bentham 2009 Report that was authored by Dr. Harrit et al, describes the finding of a nanothermitic substance. in all their dust samples the nanothermite material they described had an ignition temperature always around 430C.

The Science Journal Report that I referred to described the testing of a nano material substance called nanothermite.

It also found that it was very modifiable between 400C and 500C, allowing for consistent, controllable ignition.

And it goes on to describe the energy spike and explosive potential of the substance.

Yes. I think it is quite related, and a very recent finding.

MM
 
...
The Bentham 2009 Report that was authored by Dr. Harrit et al, describes the finding of a nanothermitic substance. in all their dust samples the nanothermite material they described had an ignition temperature always around 430C.
MM, the red-gray chips connsisted, according to Harrit e.al., of
gray layer:
- iron oxide bulk
red layer:
- organic matrix
- iron oxide particles
- particles with aluminium
- other stuff like silicon something

Can you estimate, in % by weight, the abundance of the three main constituents that Harrit e.al. claim? So if the chips are
x% gray layer
y% organic matrix
z% thermite
what are x, y and z? Very rough estimates will do.


The Science Journal Report that I referred to described the testing of a nano material substance called nanothermite.

It also found that it was very modifiable between 400C and 500C, allowing for consistent, controllable ignition.

And it goes on to describe the energy spike and explosive potential of the substance.

Yes. I think it is quite related, and a very recent finding.

MM
Was that the same kind of thermite as the one Harrit e.al. claim to have found? If not, care to tell us the differences?
Also, what energy density does this report find for this copper-thermite, and what energy density did Harrit e.al. find? Are they basically the same? If not, please explain the differences!
 

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