CIA threatens "Press for Truth" producers over release of new documentary

[paloalto]

Because you have no evidence.

All you have are publicly released documents showing what happened and then your personal opinion about WHY they happened.

But you have no expertise in any relevant field to make your personal opinion matter in the slightest.

Most of the people who DO have the relevant expertise disagree with your conclusions..........so what is the point of you posting the same arguments over and over without any real evidence?

Wait a sec.............................

Posting the same arguments over and over without any real evidence............WHY THAT'S WHAT THE TRUTH MOVEMENT HAS BEEN DOING FOR YEARS AND YEARS NOW.

Nevermind.....carry on and keep fighting the good fight truther...........on........the.............in....ter......net...............

I would have to respectfully disagree with you

"But you have no expertise in any relevant field to make your personal opinion matter in the slightest."

How would you know. You don't so it is clear your are speaking about something for which you know nothing about.

And your claimed back ground, which you have failed to even acknowledge, as far as I am concerned, does not give you any expertise in the area of intelligence before the attacks on 9/11, none at all. Unless you were actually at Alec Station, you have no knowledge beyond what the average person has on 9/11 and perhaps a whole lot less. And unless you have spent time doing careful research on 9/11, using the now available public documents, you have no knowledge at all on the events prior to the attacks on 9/11 and your failure to even answer the simplest questions that I have posed to you proves this.

For example why did FBI Agent Dina Corsi shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when she knew by August 22, 2001 that the CIA had the photo of Walid Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur, knew that connected these al Qaeda terrorist to the planning of the Cole bombing, and knew that the investigation of these terrorists should have immediately gone to Bongardt and his team. Why did she and her boss Rod Middleton do this when they clearly knew it was Federal felony to withhold this information from a Federal criminal investigation and Bongardt and to shut his investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi down. Almost 3000 people were murdered because of these actions by Corsi, and Middleton so this is no immaterial academic exercise.

Since it is clear that you cannot even answer this very simple question, this calls into question what really do you know about the intelligence prior to 9/11. It looks like absolutely nothing at all.

Your claim that "you are the expert and every else does not have the expertise in any relevant field to make their personal opinion matter in the slightest" is total nonsense at best.

In answer to your staemnt:

“Most of the people who DO have the relevant expertise disagree with your conclusions..........so what is the point of you posting the same arguments over and over without any real evidence?”

No they don’t, and you fail again.

Here is what the experts have said:

Governor Kean head of the 9/1 Commission:

Tenet lied to us, it is clear he lied to us. He did not misspeak, these were outright lies. When Tenet said he had not withheld information from the FBI, he out right lied to us. (This lie cost almost 3000 people their lives on 9/11.)

FBI Agent Ali Soufan:

The CIA deliberately withheld the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi from us, (the FBI Cole, bombing investigators). They knew (that Mihdhar and Hazmi were at Kuala Lumpur and were inside of the US planning a al Qaeda terrorist attack) and withheld this information from us. Threy knew! What would the outcome have been had they given us the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi? I hate to guess.

Richard Clarke:

Tenet, Black, and Blee deliberately withheld the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi from me and the FBI. Had we gotten the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US even as late as September 4, 2001 we could have mounted a massive search for them.

Author Lawrence Wright:

The CIA criminally obstructed the Cole bombing investigation (by withholding the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi and the fact that they had been at the Kuala Lumpur meeting with Walid Bin Attash planning the Cole bombing). I can’t understand, (since withholding this information allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11) why no one at the CIA has been held to account for this. The CIA had criminally obstructed the Cole bombing investigation.

Looks like the experts agree with me and your statement that; “Most of the people who DO have the relevant expertise disagree with your conclusions” is again shown to be total bull s***.

 

[paloalto]

You listed five targets. You may want to take the time to read what you're copying every so often.

I listed 4 targets, the WTC towers, the Pentagon and the Congress.

If you claim that I listed the CIA headquarters, this was on the original target list by KSM, but in actuality was never a target of the terrorists on 9/11 except in their very early planning stages.

 

[paloalto]

I've heard mention of the Capitol building and the White House as potential fourth targets but not the CIA building. Where did you get that from?

The CIA headquarters was on the original list by KSM, but in actuality was never a target of the terrorists on 9/11 except in their very early planning stages.

The White House was considered but rejected as being too small and too hard to hit to be a viable target.

 

[NoahFence]

The CIA headquarters was on the original list by KSM, but in actuality was never a target of the terrorists on 9/11 except in their very early planning stages.

The White House was considered but rejected as being too small and too hard to hit to be a viable target.

Source?

 

[paloalto]

Source?

The source is natgeo.com for one, but the information on the targets came from Abdul Harkim Murad, and Colonel Mendoza of the Philippine intelligence, who gave Murad's confession to the CIA. Google Colonel Mendoza or Abdul Harkim Murad. This information was also on Ramzi Yousef’s computer that was found after the fire in Manila in Yousef’s and KSM's bomb factory at the apartment shared by Yousef and KSM.

 

[LSSBB]

So far all the evidence I have seen presented by paloalto and JimD3100, biased interpretation and language aside, appears well researched, and damning in some way. The problem is which way? I see two possible explanations (feel free to chime in if you see others):

1. LIHOP: Someone decided: "Let's see how this plays out"
2. LIHOI: Someone decided: "I've heard enough of this nonsense. There's no way a non- state actor could pull this off"

What evidence is there to pick 1 over 2, or some other explanation?

 

[NoahFence]

The source is natgeo.com for one, but the information on the targets came from Abdul Harkim Murad, and Colonel Mendoza of the Philippine intelligence, who gave Murad's confession to the CIA. Google Colonel Mendoza or Abdul Harkim Murad. This information was also on Ramzi Yousef’s computer that was found after the fire in Manila in Yousef’s and KSM's bomb factory at the apartment shared by Yousef and KSM.

I am not currently in possession of Ramsi Yousef's computer.

Could you please link?

 

[paloalto]

I am not currently in possession of Ramsi Yousef's computer.

Could you please link?

Go to Paul Thompson's Timeline, Google Timeline or 9/11 Timeline or Paul Thompson.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Go to Paul Thompson's Timeline, Google Timeline or 9/11 Timeline or Paul Thompson.

They will tell you how "biased" Thompson is and dismiss everything.

The information about the CIA headquarters as target is also on wikipedia. It's Hakim, not Harkim, but Google will fix that:

Here, NoahFence, you're welcome.

 

[NoahFence]

Go to Paul Thompson's Timeline, Google Timeline or 9/11 Timeline or Paul Thompson.

So the gist of your story is that you at least dismiss thermite and controlled demo? Cuz that would be a nice start....

 

[paloalto]

So the gist of your story is that you at least dismiss termite and controlled demo? Cuz that would be a nice start....

That is all Bull **** hyped by flimflam artists and charlatans trying to sell books. No body with even half a brain would be so stupid as to ever believe this crap. But what this type of horse manure has done is push the spot light away from the CIA and FBI HQ agents they had corrupted, who had criminally obstructed and finally sabotaged all investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US.

Samit's investigation of Moussaoui was sabotaged by Maltbie and Frasca, and Corsi and Middleton sabotaged Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. Both groups are located at the FBI ITOS unit, who had for their Deputy Chief Tom Wilshire, the former Deputy Chief at the CIA bin Laden unit who was working directly for Richard Blee. Wilshire was their boss. Wilshire, while directing Corsi to criminally obstruct Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, makes email contact with Maltbie on August 24, 2001, if you can imagine that.

Wilshire finds out that someone in the ITOS unit had been sabotaging FBI Agents Harry Samit’s investigation of Moussaoui. Maltbie’s email back to Wilshire indicated this. We don’t know even to today who that was, it could be it was Frasca, who had been instructed by Wilshire to sabotage Samit’s investigation of Moussaoui, and Maltbie was just unaware of the Frasca-Wilshire connection.

Wilshire is also famous for blocking FBI Agent Doug Millers cable to the FBI on Mihdhar's passport, and multi-entry visa for the US on January 5, 2000. After all what does any self respecting al Qaeda terrorist need with a multi-entry visa for the US. He wouldn’t dream of committing a terrorist act in the US, no maybe a he just wanted to attend a Tiddlywinks tournament in Toledo.

It looks like Wilshire was the CIA jack of all trades at the CIA willing to do whatever dirty work his corrupt and criminal minded high level managers at the CIA wanted done.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 10. Do not attempt to bypass the autocensor.

 

[LSSBB]

That is all Bull **** hyped by flimflam artists and charlatans trying to sell books. No body with even half a brain would be so stupid as to ever believe this crap. But what this type of horse manure has done is push the spot light away from the CIA and FBI HQ agents they had corrupted, who had criminally obstructed and finally sabotaged all investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US.

Samit's investigation of Moussaoui was sabotaged by Maltbie and Frasca, and Corsi and Middleton sabotaged Bongardt's investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. Both groups are located at the FBI ITOS unit, who had for their Deputy Chief Tom Wilshire, the former Deputy Chief at the CIA bin Laden unit who was working directly for Richard Blee. Wilshire was their boss. Wilshire, while directing Corsi to criminally obstructing Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, makes email contact with Maltbie on August 24, 2001, if you can imagine that.

Wilshire finds out that someone in the ITOS unit had been sabotaging FBI Agents Harry Samit’s investigation of Moussaoui. Maltbie’s email back to Wilshire indicated this. We don’t know even to today who that was, it could be it was Frasca, who had been instructed by Wilshire to sabotage Samit’s investigation of Moussaoui, and Maltbie was just unaware of the Frasca-Wilshire connection.

Wilshire is also famous for blocking FBI Agent Doug Millers cable to the FBI on Mihdhar's passport, and multi-entry visa for the US on January 5, 2000. After all what does any self respecting al Qaeda terrorist need with a multi-entry visa for the US. He wouldn’t dream of committing a terrorist act in the US, no maybe a he just wanted to attend a Tiddlywinks tournament in Toledo.

It looks like Wilshire was the CIA jack of all trades at the CIA willing to do whatever dirty work his corrupt and criminal minded high level managers at the CIA wanted done.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Moderated content removed.

Sabotage is a highly perjorative term. See how different what you stated reads by replacing "sabatoged" with "impaired". Are you a mind reader, to be able to derive a motive from their actions where none is stated?

ETA:I concur on the flimflam statement. If the Truth movement had been where you are at a long time ago, it may have gotten some results.

 

[paloalto]

ETA:I concur on the flimflam statement. If the Truth movement had been where you are at a long time ago, it may have gotten some results.[/QUOTE]

It was what it was. I am just calling a spade a spade

Maltbie and Frasca blocked Samit from even applying to the OIPR for a FISA warrant. Their excuse was Moussaoui was not connected with a recognized terrorist organization.

First Middleton on his April 2001 memo, that went to all of the managers at FBI HQ, described the threat to the US of a terrorist attack by Bin Laden and his close ally Khattab, and second the French intelligence had connected Moussaoui directly to Khattab. The excuse Maltbie and Fracas used to deny Samit his request to even request a FISA warrant was that the Khattab organization was not a recognized terrorist organization.

But the FISA court and the OIPR said that the concept of a recognized terrorist organization was not a concept recognized by the court or OIPR. All terrorist organizations were terrorist organizations whether they were recognized or not. That was all BS to keep Samit from getting a warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag.

In his bag was a receipt for $14,000 from Ramzi bin al-Sheibh. Once Samit got the warrant, after the second tower was hit, he and his team quickly followed this lead to Germnany. They found all of the other terrorists in days, by going back to Germany and following al-Sheibh's phone records to the UAE paymaster that had been in contact with almost all of the terrorists inside of the US.

Corsi and Middleton completely shut down the criminal investigation of Bongardt for Mihdhar and Hazmi They had even known that it was illegal and that they were committing extremely Federal crimes to do this. It was their shutting down Bongardt’s investigation, the investigation that had the greatest chance to prevent the attacks on 9/11, that had ultimately allowed the al Qaeda terrorist attacks on 9/11 to take place.

When you illegally block a criminal investigation in my book, you are sabotaging that investigation.

Like I said; It was what it was. I am just calling a spade a spade.

 

[chrismohr]

Paloalto,

Too bad I didn't investigate your claims instead of Richard Gage's when I started all this in 2009. I'm too burned out on 9/11 to start up again. But I do want to mention that the the term "sabotage" must be chosen carefully. You say, "When you illegally block a criminal investigation in my book, you are sabotaging that investigation." Technically true, but the term "sabotage" can also point to vastly more dastardly deeds so be careful that people understand what you mean when you use such a term.

Chris Mohr, journalist and English major

 

[newton3376]

So far all the evidence I have seen presented by paloalto and JimD3100, biased interpretation and language aside, appears well researched, and damning in some way. The problem is which way? I see two possible explanations (feel free to chime in if you see others):

1. LIHOP: Someone decided: "Let's see how this plays out"
2. LIHOI: Someone decided: "I've heard enough of this nonsense. There's no way a non- state actor could pull this off"

What evidence is there to pick 1 over 2, or some other explanation?

#2 is basically what actually happened....

The bad thing is that EVEN TODAY I see this attitude.....sometimes it's a racist sounding attitude too....like "There's no way a bunch of Arabs could pull this off".

Very very dangerous thinking......

 

[SpringHallConvert]

Too bad I didn't investigate your claims instead of Richard Gage's when I started all this in 2009. I'm too burned out on 9/11 to start up again.

I'm not buying it. If you were too burned out on 9/11 you wouldn't still be here. What's the real reason you won't ignore all that controlled demolition stuff and change direction on your investigation?

I suspect you are more open to the idea of U.S. government complicity than you let on, but perhaps aren't mentally prepared to travel down that road yet. For now, you've chosen to stick with the "blue pill" take on things, for whatever reason.

 

[MarkLindeman]

I'm not buying it. If you were too burned out on 9/11 you wouldn't still be here. What's the real reason you won't ignore all that controlled demolition stuff and change direction on your investigation?

Can you point us to any research that you've done in this area?

If not, then why should anyone else value your opinion that they should care more than you do?

 

[LSSBB]

Can you point us to any research that you've done in this area?

If not, then why should anyone else value your opinion that they should care more than you do?

I think the burnout is from dealing with people having the same approach to critical thinking as SHC has exhibited.

 

[Robrob]

I'm not buying it. If you were too burned out on 9/11 you wouldn't still be here. What's the real reason you won't ignore all that controlled demolition stuff and change direction on your investigation?

That it's truther fantasy and people shouldn't be able to present fantasy as fact?

I suspect you are more open to the idea of U.S. government complicity than you let on, but perhaps aren't mentally prepared to travel down that road yet.

So apparently being debunked by someone means they are ready to accept your fact-less theory?

For now, you've chosen to stick with the "blue pill" take on things, for whatever reason.

One reason might be because all the facts and evidence support it and your movie fantasy red pill doesn't?

 

[tsig]

ETA:I concur on the flimflam statement. If the Truth movement had been where you are at a long time ago, it may have gotten some results.

It was what it was. I am just calling a spade a spade

Maltbie and Frasca blocked Samit from even applying to the OIPR for a FISA warrant. Their excuse was Moussaoui was not connected with a recognized terrorist organization.

First Middleton on his April 2001 memo, that went to all of the managers at FBI HQ, described the threat to the US of a terrorist attack by Bin Laden and his close ally Khattab, and second the French intelligence had connected Moussaoui directly to Khattab. The excuse Maltbie and Fracas used to deny Samit his request to even request a FISA warrant was that the Khattab organization was not a recognized terrorist organization.

But the FISA court and the OIPR said that the concept of a recognized terrorist organization was not a concept recognized by the court or OIPR. All terrorist organizations were terrorist organizations whether they were recognized or not. That was all BS to keep Samit from getting a warrant for Moussaoui’s duffel bag.

In his bag was a receipt for $14,000 from Ramzi bin al-Sheibh. Once Samit got the warrant, after the second tower was hit, he and his team quickly followed this lead to Germnany. They found all of the other terrorists in days, by going back to Germany and following al-Sheibh's phone records to the UAE paymaster that had been in contact with almost all of the terrorists inside of the US.

Corsi and Middleton completely shut down the criminal investigation of Bongardt for Mihdhar and Hazmi They had even known that it was illegal and that they were committing extremely Federal crimes to do this. It was their shutting down Bongardt’s investigation, the investigation that had the greatest chance to prevent the attacks on 9/11, that had ultimately allowed the al Qaeda terrorist attacks on 9/11 to take place.

When you illegally block a criminal investigation in my book, you are sabotaging that investigation.

Like I said; It was what it was. I am just calling a spade a spade.

You might want to lay down that spade.