The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

DOC said:
For the record, the Greek word for "generation" can also be translated as "race". Didn't the Jews consider everyone but themselves a different race.
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For that matter, you could argue that Jesus was referring to the "human race" (that would make it a prophecy that no-one could claim had failed ;)).

However, given that the phrase "very soon" (in relation to the second coming) appears so often in the new testament, it is more likely that the 1st century Christians believed that Jesus promised to return within their life times.

DOC said:
And the passage with "generation" didn't seem to bother the many bishops at the Council of Carthage who voted on what would be considered the official Church writings. They could have easily dropped that book if it bothered them. They didn't seem to have a problem with it hundreds of years after it was written -- you have to wonder why they didn't seem to have a problem with it.
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If there are any divine truths in the bible then it is in spite of committees such as these - not because.
 
DOC said:
Many people believe Isaiah chapter 53 is a fulfilled prophecy, some Jews have even converted to Christianity because of it.
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. . . . implying that others don't. It's all in how you interpret it.

If you have to twist the bible this way and that to make it fit in with your beliefs then you might as well join the Jehovah's Witnesses.
 
dafydd said:
Ok. It behooves us to stop.
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.
Someone will trot out another oldie but goodie...
Reminds me...:)
My dad.. cavalry man.. had a pleasureable saying..
"She was only a stable-man's daughter, but all the horse manure".
 
I've been following this thread off and on, but I have to say that DOC's title, "The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy" gets funnier with every post.

DOC, do you regret that title? If not, which "incredible odds" were you referring to, exactly? Do you realize that the claim in your OP has been torn to shreds over and over and over?
 
DOC said:
For the record, the Greek word for "generation" can also be translated as "race". Didn't the Jews consider everyone but themselves a different race.

Once might say well how can the a race (like the Jews) pass away? You might ask that question of any Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, but I don't think you will find any.
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We already covered this and the word's use as "race" is only attested in Homer's works, nearly 1,000 years before the NT, and then only when applied to animals, not to people. I'm really too lazy now to link back to the post where I originally wrote that; IIRC I bumped that post later to ask for your reaction and you were silent. Now don't come again with the same crap over again, do your legwork and give some credible sources to back up your claim.

ETA: And I wonder actually where you want to go with that. If you replace "generation" by "race" in what Jesus said "all these things will happen before this generation comes to pass", wouldn't that actually be another damning antisemitic statement in the NT, another exhortation to Christians to slaughter Jews?
 
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ddt said:
We already covered this and the word's use as "race" is only attested in Homer's works, nearly 1,000 years before the NT, and then only when applied to animals, not to people. I'm really too lazy now to link back to the post where I originally wrote that; IIRC I bumped that post later to ask for your reaction and you were silent. Now don't come again with the same crap over again, do your legwork and give some credible sources to back up your claim.

ETA: And I wonder actually where you want to go with that. If you replace "generation" by "race" in what Jesus said "all these things will happen before this generation comes to pass", wouldn't that actually be another damning antisemitic statement in the NT, another exhortation to Christians to slaughter Jews?
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Well either that or the entire 'race' of those following the teachings of christ (ie christians) would need to die before the prophecies come to pass, it could be an exhortation to commit mass suicide (which does fit the cult thing well).
 
DOC said:
For the record, the Greek word for "generation" can also be translated as "race". Didn't the Jews consider everyone but themselves a different race.
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And?


DOC said:
Once might say well how can the a race (like the Jews) pass away? You might ask that question of any Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, but I don't think you will find any.
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And?


DOC said:
And the passage with "generation" didn't seem to bother the many bishops at the Council of Carthage who voted on what would be considered the official Church writings.
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I have no idea what point it is that you're trying to make with this dreck, but I can't help but note how absurd it is that what you regard as the inerrant word of God is nothing more than the result of polling the audience at a 4th century theological version of Whose Line Is It Anyway?.


DOC said:
They could have easily dropped that book if it bothered them.
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Considering the city that was standing there, bold as brass in the warm Mediterranean Sun on the coast of the Levant a mere 2,000 kilometres from where they were all sittiing around playing Name That Gospel it's a little surprising that they didn't drop the book of Ezekiel with all its failed prophecies and whatnot. Clearly none of them were as good at geography as the world-renowned Sir Luke.


DOC said:
They didn't seem to have a problem with it hundreds of years after it was written -- you have to wonder why they didn't seem to have a problem with it.
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I have to wonder why they didn't make the whole bloody lot up from scratch and at least make it internally consistent.

My best guess is that they figured that anyone stupid enough to believe the overall story that they came up with would be way too thick to ever notice the finer details.

I suppose to a certain extent they were right, eh?
 
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DOC said:
Many people believe Isaiah chapter 53 is a fulfilled prophecy . . .
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Many people believe that Xenu, the evil galactic overlord, dropped millions of his frozen constituents into some volcanoes and blew them up and many more people believe that Joseph Smith had a talking hat and some walkie-talkie rocks that a spook called Moron (or something like that) gave him.


DOC said:
. . . some Jews have even converted to Christianity because of it.
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Some people have even taken phenobarbital washed down with vodka to try and reach salvation on the far side of a comet. Some people even drank the Kool-Aid.

So?

Why must you constantly attempt to derail my thread with these absurd irrelevancies, DOC?
 
ddt said:
DOC said:
For the record, the Greek word for "generation" can also be translated as "race". Didn't the Jews consider everyone but themselves a different race.

Once might say well how can the a race (like the Jews) pass away? You might ask that question of any Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, but I don't think you will find any.
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We already covered this and the word's use as "race" is only attested in Homer's works, nearly 1,000 years before the NT, and then only when applied to animals, not to people. I'm really too lazy now to link back to the post where I originally wrote that; IIRC I bumped that post later to ask for your reaction and you were silent. Now don't come again with the same crap over again, do your legwork and give some credible sources to back up your claim.
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ddt said:
DOC said:
On another note, Norman Geisler points out that the Greek word for "generation" can also be translated as race. So Christ could be saying this Jewish race shall not pass away until the end of the world.
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My Greek -> Dutch dictionary says indeed that γενεὰ could be translated by "race". However, that use is only attested with Homer, and only for use with animals. FYI, Homer is about the oldest Greek we have on record, approx. 800 years before the NT was written.

So, epic fail. Or is this latent antisemitism with Geisler, equating Jews with animals? :rolleyes:
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Courtesy of Aberhaten's DOC said What??? directory. Serving the Upper Land since its non-invasion by Nebuchadnezzar. No quote too big or too small.​


ddt said:
ETA: And I wonder actually where you want to go with that. If you replace "generation" by "race" in what Jesus said "all these things will happen before this generation comes to pass", wouldn't that actually be another damning antisemitic statement in the NT, another exhortation to Christians to slaughter Jews?
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Sometimes the writers of the oral traditions left in the difficult sayings of Jesus to prove that the story wasn't some of the fiction which didn't exist in those days.
 
Akhenaten said:
Some people have even taken phenobarbital washed down with vodka to try and reach salvation on the far side of a comet. Some people even drank the Kool-Aid.
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Since I'm feeling slightly grouchy this morning (see elsewhere), and also living up to my custom title in this thread, I'll point out, purely in the interests of accuracy, that it was Flavor Aid, not Kool-Aid.
 
DOC said:
And the passage with "generation" didn't seem to bother the many bishops at the Council of Carthage who voted on what would be considered the official Church writings. They could have easily dropped that book if it bothered them. They didn't seem to have a problem with it hundreds of years after it was written -- you have to wonder why they didn't seem to have a problem with it.
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I wonder why YOU don't have a problem with it! But just about any mental contortion will be attempted by people who want to preserve a belief in the literal truth of the Bible.
 
dafydd said:
With no proof. I am not interested in what some people believe, if you have proof of a fulfilled prophecy then please present it. All the proofs you have presented so far have been blown out of the water.
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You probably believe life came from non-life over time (from out of the water) through non-intelligent random means with no proof of it, so why do you demand proof in this case.
 
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