Miracle of the Shroud / Blood on the shroud

[Belz...]

- Re one vs two foci -- I'm torn.
- For simplicity sake, I'd like to stick to one, and carbon dating would be the natural first choice.
- However, I disagree with you about the surety of the dating, believe that I have evidence in other areas that "outweighs" the dating, don't want to be restricted to just arguing against the dating and want to have my chance (in my own "sub-thread") to direct the conversation.
- I'm trying to follow your lead re the carbon dating, but think that the blood issue and its implications, outweigh the carbon dating results re the date of the Shroud. So, that's the area I wish to address, and will try to develop my own sub-thread accordingly.
--- Jabba

Why do you start each paragraph with a hyphen ? It looks like a list, and is annoying.

 

[dafydd]

Why do you start each paragraph with a hyphen ? It looks like a list, and is annoying.

Must be a shroudie habit. It doesn't exactly fill one with confidence, does it? He seems to think that in between his posting we all forget his name too. Yrreg signs all his posts too, I think that says enough. That Japanese band are awful, by the way.

 

[Akhenaten]

- Re one vs two foci -- I'm torn.

The good news is that it's totally irrelevant.

Score!

- For simplicity sake, I'd like to stick to one, and carbon dating would be the natural first choice.

You don't say!

- However, I disagree with you about the surety of the dating, believe that I have evidence in other areas that "outweighs" the dating, don't want to be restricted to just arguing against the dating and want to have my chance (in my own "sub-thread") to direct the conversation.

What you want then is your own blog. This Forum, and likely any forum, is not going to make itself available as your personal fantasyland.

- I'm trying to follow your lead re the carbon dating, but think that the blood issue and its implications, outweigh the carbon dating results re the date of the Shroud.

Nassssty Factsssssss. They buuuuuuuuurnsssss ussssssss.

So, that's the area I wish to address, and will try to develop my own sub-thread accordingly.
--- Jabba

See you back here after the merge.

 

[dafydd]

See you back here after the merge.

Can you tell merge from butter?

 

[Jabba]

Me:
- "The ‘blood’ stains were on the cloth prior to the image."
- I claim that because,
A. There is no image below any of the blood stains.
B. There were like 150 different wounds depicted on the depicted body. In order for there to be no image under the depicted wounds, the artist would have had to leave 150 well-shaped "holes" in the image, and most of the holes would have included spaces not visible to the naked eye.

Pakeha:
We've gone over this at the other forum. I pointed you in the direction of lithographic techniques so you could see for yourself why this is a false premise.
However, I confused the technique.
I should have said woodcutting (xilography) technique.
I'm very sorry for my stupid mistake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcut
The work of Marc Escher is particularly of interest here.
Please keep in mind I am NOT claiming the TS was made using woodcutting, though I don't rule it out, either...

Me:- But, how does xilography explain "A" and "B" above?

Hi, Jabba.
I think it's easier for all if we concentrate on one subject at time.
Look what happened at the other forum you- it splintered into at least 5 different threads, at your behest, and haas ground to a halt at the moment.
Just stick to the main issue-the carbon 14 dating.
It should be clear by now the 'blood' is evidence of nothing in particular and is a side issue til the dating is recognised.

Pakeha,
- If I said something like that, wouldn't you guys claim that I was just trying to avoid the issue?
- I'm claiming that a significant evidential track leads off from the blood issue, but expect that presenting the whole track at once would cause mayhem. I can say that the first "landing" in my projected "staircase," is that I can pretty much prove -- by the blood evidence -- that neither the image nor the blood were painted, and that one way or another, a dead body was involved.

--- Jabba

 

[Jabba]

...See you back here after the merge.

Akhenaten,
- I'm not intending a different thread, just a sub-thread within this thread.
--- Jabba

 

[Akhenaten]

Can you tell merge from butter?

I can't believe it's not C14.

 

[dafydd]

Me:
- "The ‘blood’ stains were on the cloth prior to the image."
- I claim that because,
A. There is no image below any of the blood stains.
B. There were like 150 different wounds depicted on the depicted body. In order for there to be no image under the depicted wounds, the artist would have had to leave 150 well-shaped "holes" in the image, and most of the holes would have included spaces not visible to the naked eye.

Pakeha:
We've gone over this at the other forum. I pointed you in the direction of lithographic techniques so you could see for yourself why this is a false premise.
However, I confused the technique.
I should have said woodcutting (xilography) technique.
I'm very sorry for my stupid mistake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcut
The work of Marc Escher is particularly of interest here.
Please keep in mind I am NOT claiming the TS was made using woodcutting, though I don't rule it out, either...

Me:- But, how does xilography explain "A" and "B" above? Pakeha,
- If I said something like that, wouldn't you guys claim that I was just trying to avoid the issue?
- I'm claiming that a significant evidential track leads off from the blood issue, but expect that presenting the whole track at once would cause mayhem. I can say that the first "landing" in my projected "staircase," is that I can pretty much prove -- by the blood evidence -- that neither the image nor the blood were painted, and that one way or another, a dead body was involved.

--- Jabba

So you are still preparing to present evidence? See you next year.

 

[Akhenaten]

Akhenaten,
- I'm not intending a different thread, just a sub-thread within this thread.
--- Jabba

You really should give up. It's even embarrassing to watch now.

 

[Jabba]

Why do you start each paragraph with a hyphen ? It looks like a list, and is annoying.

Belz,
- I'm sorry that it's annoying to you -- but, for the sake of effective organization, I like to have groups of paragraphs, and the program here (as in most forums) doesn't readily allow for that.
--- Jabba

 

[dafydd]

Akhenaten,
- I'm not intending a different thread, just a sub-thread within this thread.
--- Jabba

As far as I can see you are not intending anything except ignoring evidence.

 

[dafydd]

Belz,
- I'm sorry that it's annoying to you -- but, for the sake of effective organization, I like to have groups of paragraphs, and the program here (as in most forums) doesn't readily allow for that.
--- Jabba

There is an accepted orthographic technique for presenting groups of paragraphs. I learned it in school.

 

[Jabba]

Blood

So you are still preparing to present evidence? See you next year.

dafydd,
- I'm the only one asking Pakeha questions -- whereas, I'm being asked questions by more than 50 persons, and answering as many as I can find time for -- and, I'd like her to answer.
--- Jabba

 

[Jabba]

There is an accepted orthographic technique for presenting groups of paragraphs. I learned it in school.

dafydd,
- I didn't. Could you explain?
--- Jabba

 

[dafydd]

dafydd,
- I'm the only one asking Pakeha questions -- whereas, I'm being asked questions by more than 50 persons, and answering as many as I can find time for -- and, I'd like her to answer.
--- Jabba

Fifty people asking you the same questions.

 

[Jabba]

Evidence

As far as I can see you are not intending anything except ignoring evidence.

Dafydd,
- Go over to http://shroudofturin.wordpress.com/, start a debate and see how well you can keep up.
--- Jabba

 

[Akhenaten]

Belz,
- I'm sorry that it's annoying to you -- but, for the sake of effective organization, I like to have groups of paragraphs, and the program here (as in most forums) doesn't readily allow for that.
--- Jabba

Have you ever heard the expression "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", Jabba?

Well you don't even have any deck chairs. And the ship has already sailed.

 

[dafydd]

dafydd,
- I didn't. Could you explain?
--- Jabba

PARAGRAPHS AND WHEN TO USE THEM

Many people never learned how and when to use paragraphs. Most likely they learned that every paragraph should have a topic sentence, but that's where their knowledge of paragraphing stops. Below are some guidelines on when to create a new paragraph and their uses.

PARAGRAPHS ARE UNITS OF COMPOSITION. They help you organize your ideas so that they flow freely from one to the other.

Change paragraphs:

1. At a change of place.
2. At a change of time.
3. To show a specific case as related to your topic.
4. To change to a more specific time.
5. When the speaker changes.

Different paragraphs do different things.

1. Opening and closing.
2. Find subdivisions in your topic.
3. Provides support for your ideas.

EACH PARAGRAPH MUST HAVE A TOPIC SENTENCE--one that states its purpose.

1. Control the length of each paragraph by making it just long enough to support and develop the controlling idea.

2. Try to limit your paragraph to five lines--not sentences. If it's too long, break it down into a series of paragraphs on subtopics.

3. Vary paragraph length. A series of short paragraphs can emphasize a point.

4. Use one-sentence paragraphs to emphasize a point.

PARAGRAPHS ALLOW YOU TO:

1. Control your ideas.
2. Provide concrete examples, reasons and illustrations.
3. Comment on your ideas--give your opinion.
4. State your main point again in other ways.
5. Summarize for other people by stating what you believe or what you learned.



http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/fwalters/essaybasic.html

 

[dafydd]

Dafydd,
- Go over to http://shroudofturin.wordpress.com/, start a debate and see how well you can keep up.
--- Jabba

Piece of cake. It's easy to keep up with delusionauts who have no evidence.

 

[Akhenaten]

dafydd,
- I'm the only one asking Pakeha questions -- whereas, I'm being asked questions by more than 50 persons, and answering as many as I can find time for -- and, I'd like her to answer.
--- Jabba

And yet you reckon starting threads-within-threads is the way forward?