Founder of Sea Shepherd Arrested in Germany

[Locknar]

I like whales. I want them alive and well and their population growing.

Eco-terrorism is not something I can support.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about it all.

Whaling exists for two primary reasons; economics and heritage. Focusing on economics, making whaling cost prohibitive would reduce the industry. Watson and his crew have had little (to no) impact, and IMO think the money they are spending could be better used.

 

[TheAntiV]

After spending enough time arguing with Sea Shepherd supporters, I can honestly say they are the most childish individuals on the fave of the planet.

Here's the main problem:

1. They think they're conserving wild life but they have a very limited and ignorant understanding of how conservation works.

2. They constantly bash religion and tradition yet they present themselves as moral absolutists.

3. They paint their actions to make it seem they are all about conservation but the fact is that their views are completely ideological in nature.

4. They attack peoples traditions without trying to understand why they hunt whale and ethnocentrically paint people as "primitive" and "barbaric" just because they're hunting something they see as cute.

 

[Furcifer]

Thanks FW, some good info.

The way I see it despite Watson being a goof he's the only one out there doing something. If anyone thinks they can do better grab a boat and send me your PayPal info. Feel free to start a signature list if you think that will help, but forgive me if I don't think it will do much.

As for the whaling, I personally don't think they should be hunted but I can respect "tradition". At the same time I'm not going to mix words, this tradition is primitive. If you want to say "Hey but eating meat is primitive" I'm not going to argue it. I am going to point out that at least we've domesticated cows and now we don't have to worry about eating them into extinction. If people don't see the difference, well whatever, I see the difference.
This is 2012 and the fact is if someone in Turkey decides they're interested in hunting whales the previous limitations which made it unfeasible don't exist. Do they have equal claim to the catch as the US with many times the people? Or does Canada have more claim than the US because of the extensive coastline? Beats me, but that seems like something that should be ironed out before the hunt. As far as I can tell that hasn't happened.
Long story short it's a political cluster bleep and as long as it goes on I don't have any problem with a cluster bleep of an activist running interference.

 

[theprestige]

The way I see it despite Watson being a goof he's the only one out there doing something... Long story short it's a political cluster bleep and as long as it goes on I don't have any problem with a cluster bleep of an activist running interference.

Something should be done. This is something. Therefore, this should be done.

I'm all for people applying solutions to problems. But I don't think that if there's no solution being applied, it's ever a good idea to apply a problem to a problem instead.

The Sea Shepherd folks are a tragicomic hybrid of frothing incompetents and confrontation junkies. They're not really a "good enough" solution that we should welcome while we wait for something better to come along.

 

[Furcifer]

Something should be done. This is something. Therefore, this should be done.

I'm all for people applying solutions to problems. But I don't think that if there's no solution being applied, it's ever a good idea to apply a problem to a problem instead.

The Sea Shepherd folks are a tragicomic hybrid of frothing incompetents and confrontation junkies. They're not really a "good enough" solution that we should welcome while we wait for something better to come along.

It's all relative, hyperbole aside we're talking about a few gallons of fuel and an offshore or two vs. the lives of some marine mammals. If we were talking about getting the city to change a sign to a stop light it would be a different story.

 

[Checkmite]

Something should be done. This is something. Therefore, this should be done.

I'm all for people applying solutions to problems. But I don't think that if there's no solution being applied, it's ever a good idea to apply a problem to a problem instead.

The Sea Shepherd folks are a tragicomic hybrid of frothing incompetents and confrontation junkies. They're not really a "good enough" solution that we should welcome while we wait for something better to come along.

I think anyone who applies some forward thinking to the problem will realize that whatever the real solution to the "whaling problem" will be, it won't involve getting on a boat.

However, despite things like the statements posted in this very thread from the government of Australia for instance regarding measures they're pursuing, people will continue to justify the actions of Sea Shepherds by claiming that "nobody else is doing anything".

 

[RandFan]

...it won't involve getting on a boat.

Not that there is anything wrong with being on a boat.

 

[Furcifer]

I think anyone who applies some forward thinking to the problem will realize that whatever the real solution to the "whaling problem" will be, it won't involve getting on a boat.

However, despite things like the statements posted in this very thread from the government of Australia for instance regarding measures they're pursuing, people will continue to justify the actions of Sea Shepherds by claiming that "nobody else is doing anything".

I updated my Facebook status to "saving the whales", change is on the wind.

The point is Watson isn't a nuisance, he's a public nuisance. That may be more effective than an International stalemate with a country many rely on for trade. The Japanese have taken hostages and started to kill them, seems like the right time to pull the negotiator and send in the sniper.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Strawman. Nobody said the size of the boat was the only factor.
You're right of course, what the boat is used for plays a significant role in whether or not it's considered a commercial or recreational vessel.

Pfft. Telling a commercial fisherman what a commercial fisherman is.

This has been the most amusing thread watching you twist yourself into knots instead of just being honest that you are a moral absolutist about whales. They're sacred to you. So what? Cows are sacred to many Indians. White bears were sacred to the peoples in that vicinity of British Columbia where they are common.

At least all those people are honest. There isn't anything to argue about.

and this:

The way I see it despite Watson being a goof he's the only one out there doing something

More intellectual dishonesty. He is the only saboteur. But since you can't bring yourself to be honest about what you stand for, you have to speak in code-words. If you aren't a saboteur, you aren't "doing anything".

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

I understand he was then banned for being too extreme in his methods.

You can just as easily spin that as 'left of his own free will after becoming frustrated with the slow pace and caution of the organization' which IIRC is how he has said he saw it.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

Curious; he seems to be the only one who recalls him being a founder.

Ah, Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia anyone can edit. It's such a definitive resource for the life history of controversial people.

 

[Furcifer]

Pfft. Telling a commercial fisherman what a commercial fisherman is.

This has been the most amusing thread watching you twist yourself into knots instead of just being honest that you are a moral absolutist about whales. They're sacred to you. So what? Cows are sacred to many Indians. White bears were sacred to the peoples in that vicinity of British Columbia where they are common.

At least all those people are honest. There isn't anything to argue about.

and this:



More intellectual dishonesty. He is the only saboteur. But since you can't bring yourself to be honest about what you stand for, you have to speak in code-words. If you aren't a saboteur, you aren't "doing anything".

"Commecial fisherman", that's just another word for professional liar

You should know full well the sale of fish has almost nothing to do with being commercial. It's really about capacity and once the fisheries have determined your capacity exceeds that of "sport" you're pretty much commercial and require additional licensing.

But you know that. Everyone knows that and now we're just splitting hairs in an attempt to apologize for what the Japanese, and yes a few other countries are doing. Shameful.

I've also said numerous times I don't care if whales are hunted so long as it's sustainable. I don't know what purpose it serves to continue to suggest otherwise? I've admitted as much your pleading won't change that.

 

[Marduk]

This has been the most amusing thread watching you twist yourself into knots instead of just being honest that you are a moral absolutist about whales. .

I've been amused by your complete and utter lack of integrity.
great to see you once again attacking other people because you don't agree with their opinion and because you haven't actually paid any attention to a word theyve posted, are you perhaps a politician

 

[Wildy]

You should know full well the sale of fish has almost nothing to do with being commercial. It's really about capacity and once the fisheries have determined your capacity exceeds that of "sport" you're pretty much commercial and require additional licensing.

So how many whales do you have to catch before your operation becomes commercial?

 

[NoahFence]

Seriously, this.

Noah Fence, they fly a pirate flag. How can you possibly be butthurt about any treatment they receive on the high seas?

Who said i was butthurt?

I simply stated a fact that the Shonan deliberately rammed them. no more, no less.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

You should know full well the sale of fish has almost nothing to do with being commercial.

Priceless! Thanks!

No better proof of living in your own fantasy world.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

I've been amused by your complete and utter lack of integrity.
great to see you once again attacking other people because you don't agree with their opinion and because you haven't actually paid any attention to a word theyve posted, are you perhaps a politician

I'm not going to put you on ignore because I am enjoying watching the steam come out of your ears.

 

[NoahFence]

Priceless! Thanks!

No better proof of living in your own fantasy world.

So this is the part where you tell someone he's wrong, without actually telling him why?

I suppose those of us not privvy to the inner workings of the fishing industry will just have to guess.

 

[Checkmite]

Ah, Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia anyone can edit. It's such a definitive resource for the life history of controversial people.

HAHAHAHAHA really?

Okay, fair objection.

Let's say this instead: nobody but him seems to remember him being a founder.

 

[Furcifer]

So how many whales do you have to catch before your operation becomes commercial?

*sigh

"How many" is a quantity. Quantity is not the same as capacity. I thought I gave some simple examples but apparently this is a complicated concept.

A man with a fishing pole and a lure can catch 1 fish at a time. He is considered a sport fisherman. Even if he catches 10 fish.
The same man with a net could catch 10 maybe 100 fish in a net. His capacity to catch fish with a net is greater than with a pole, even if he catches the same quantity of fish.

This is why using a net usually requires a commercial fishing license. Even if you never sold a single fish, if you want to use a net you need a commercial license.

This is why a couple guys on a 25 foot boat with some spears could very well be considered sport fishing and not commercial. This is why the "traditional" hunts aren't anything like what the Japanese are doing.

The irony of you trolling this thread about fishing has not been lost on me. At least I hope you're trolling.