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Founder of Sea Shepherd Arrested in Germany

Except when you say they aren't.

I am interested in knowing what you would consider Hvalur hf given that they commercially hunt whales and export to Japan since you've declared that they are not commercial, but the Japanese fleet, which are officially a research fleet, are.

While I sort of understand Indonesia's status, I don't understand what delineates Norway and Iceland, countries that hunt under objection to the commission, and Japan which hunts under the nominal designation of "research".

So Japan isn't allowed issue research permits that allow scientific whaling?
What do you believe should happen to the whales after they are killed?

Care to prove a source?

That's some mighty fine conjecture you've got there. Any chance for some actual evidence?

Maybe Norway is commercially fishing, I'm not familiar with the entire operation. If they're using commercial boats and commercial fishermen even inside their borders it's
commercial.

The whales are protected becuase they were hunted almost to extinction. The burden of proof is on you to produce Japan's method for calculating their quotas and see if it includes all of the countries in the world taking an equal share or not.
 
Has anyone heard anything about the extradition hearing? I thought it was supposed to be today...but I've checked google news for "Paul Watson" and there are no new articles.
 
Maybe Norway is commercially fishing, I'm not familiar with the entire operation. If they're using commercial boats and commercial fishermen even inside their borders it's commercial.

So to update my table:

Country|Commercial status|Mode of capture (IWC def)
Japan|Commercial|Research
Norway|Commercial|Objection
Iceland|Commercial|Objection
Indonesia|Non-commercial|Aboriginal

So that changes the list quite a bit now. So "commercial boats" seems to be one of the factors that separates "commercial" from "non-commercial".

Apart from that what other technological aspects make up the divide between commercial and non-commercial whaling?

The whales are protected becuase they were hunted almost to extinction. The burden of proof is on you to produce Japan's method for calculating their quotas and see if it includes all of the countries in the world taking an equal share or not.

Why is the burden of proof on me to show this? I don't remember making a claim that would require me to do such a thing.

Then again, what would be a fair share of whales for places like Kyrgyzstan and Liechtenstein?

Has anyone heard anything about the extradition hearing? I thought it was supposed to be today...but I've checked google news for "Paul Watson" and there are no new articles.

Released on bail pending a hearing. But for some reason I get the feeling that Germany might get €250,000 richer.
 
Released on bail pending a hearing. But for some reason I get the feeling that Germany might get €250,000 richer.

Maybe - but, ouch; international warrants are a real albatross around the old neck. Still, I suppose he could seek asylum in Iceland like Bobby Fischer did.


...oh wait, he can't seek asylum in Iceland; he's persona non grata after they expelled him for dickery. Well shoot.
 
I'm sorry that you didn't like the way I said it. :confused:

Yeah, for some reason I take slight offense when calling a group a lynch mob when it's never lynched. Some kind of truth hang-up, I guess.

Those nasty civil rights protesters broke laws they considered unjust, in order to bring attention to those laws and have them changed. The Sea Shepherds do not want to change any laws; they want Japan prosecuted (or something) under what they claim are existing laws, whilst avoiding being prosecuted themselves for the laws they break.

This is foolish even by the standards set out in your earlier posts.

ETA: When I watch Sea Shepherds do things like ram a ship into a fishing structure in the middle of the ocean that people are walking on, see to me what I see is road rage. I see a person tailgating another car, attempting to sideswipe it, force it off the road and/or beat the other driver because the guy broke a traffic law a few miles back and there were no cops around to see. The justification is that the other driver is a "menace" and "something needs to be done"; but the act of pursuing and "bringing justice" is just as much a threat to life and limb.

Uh huh. The crews ramming the ships (who have never killed anyone) are just as much a threat to life and limb as the "fishermen" shooting explosive harpoons. And war is peace, ignorance is strength, slavery is freedom.
 
Yeah, for some reason I take slight offense when calling a group a lynch mob when it's never lynched. Some kind of truth hang-up, I guess.

You know what, I'm with you - I for one am also sick of all these witch hunts that don't involve witches, wild goose chases that have nothing to do with game birds, tar babies that feature neither tar nor any babies, and straw men that aren't even physical objects let alone constructed of dried grass.


This is foolish even by the standards set out in your earlier posts.

I strive to be nonstandard.

Uh huh. The crews ramming the ships (who have never killed anyone) are just as much a threat to life and limb as the "fishermen" shooting explosive harpoons. And war is peace, ignorance is strength, slavery is freedom.

The crews ramming ships have certainly injured some folks (such as the fishermen on the structure in the video posted earlier). Trying to remember the last time a Japanese whaler accidentally or intentionally explodey-harpooned some passerby's arm or something and it's just not coming to me (although to be honest I do not regularly keep track of such incidents so I just may not have heard of them).
 
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Maybe - but, ouch; international warrants are a real albatross around the old neck. Still, I suppose he could seek asylum in Iceland like Bobby Fischer did.


...oh wait, he can't seek asylum in Iceland; he's persona non grata after they expelled him for dickery. Well shoot.


He could sail to Christmas Island and claims to be a refugee. Julia not send back anyone who does that.
 
So to update my table:

Country|Commercial status|Mode of capture (IWC def)
Japan|Commercial|Research
Norway|Commercial|Objection
Iceland|Commercial|Objection
Indonesia|Non-commercial|Aboriginal

So that changes the list quite a bit now. So "commercial boats" seems to be one of the factors that separates "commercial" from "non-commercial".

Apart from that what other technological aspects make up the divide between commercial and non-commercial whaling?



Why is the burden of proof on me to show this? I don't remember making a claim that would require me to do such a thing.

Then again, what would be a fair share of whales for places like Kyrgyzstan and Liechtenstein?



Released on bail pending a hearing. But for some reason I get the feeling that Germany might get €250,000 richer.

If Iceland and Norway are using commercial boats like the Japanese I'd like you to prove it. I've never seen any.

All the other points have been covered.
 
If some primitives want to hunt whales in a traditionally sustainable manner I don't have a problem with it.

I've had hundreds of these "primitives" as you offensively refer to them in my undergraduate and graduate university classes. They are no different from you and me other than being looked upon as an inferior class of humans by racists like you.

Your ignorance of indigenous hunts in Alaska is glaring, and is more fully mis-stated by Andrew Wiggin:


My own perception of this is that there are several indiginous peoples who have an exemption that allows them to retain an aspect of their culture, and they're openly doing some small scale whaling, using indiginous tools, as an ongoing living history reenactment. They're being honest about it being a cultural and living history thing. What the japanese are doing is pretending that there's some pressing critical reason they need to know the average body weight of a minke whale to the ninth decimal place, and thus calling weighing out the whale steaks 'research', while clearly doing the whole thing because whale steak is expensive and therefore profitable

First of all, there was no exemption made for Alaska natives. The history is that the IWC placed a complete moratorium on whale hunting, and the Alaska natives told them to **** off, forming their own Eskimo Whaling Commission, and killed them anyway. There is a long history of the natives doing this, stretching back to a case in 1961 when a native villager was cited for shooting a duck in contravention of the migratory waterfowl treaty. Immediatly afterwards, 138 other Barrow natives shot ducks and brought them in to the fish and game office, daring them to arrest them.

Edited by LashL: 
Edited breach of Rule 10.


The former chair of this Eskimo Whaling Commission, George Ahmaogak, was just sentenced to 30 years in prison for various financial crimes. You have people here who are going to do whatever they please, the law be damned, and what they have forced the IWC to do is either imprison whole villages or let them do what they want.

The irony is that your heroes are lawbreakers claiming to protect the whales, yet you side with the natives who were lawbreakers that were killing them.

The reason why the natives use the skin boats for first strike is that the whales run from the sound of an outboard motor, and because of the flexibility of the skin boats. They don't pound the waves like an inflexible boat so they are far stealthier. They are choosing the most EFFECTIVE hunting technology, not some stupid living history thing. God what paternalistic crap! They shoot caribou in the head while crossing rivers, bash swans on the head while they are moulting, etc. - which again has to do with efficiency and not an idiotic "living history" meme. Reading this stuff is revolting.

What this proves is how people make up total crap - and its pretty racist, paternalistic crap too - out of complete ignorance in order to support their irrational positions.
 
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Really? A lot of Indonesian whalers taking undergrad classes in Nome is there? :rolleyes:
"Primitives" are universal to any race. Ted Nugent is an example of a "white" primitive. I find my own views on hunting and wearing furs primitive. Even organic farming is primitive.
It really only becomes pejorative when we're talking about people that do something unsustainable out of principle.
 
If Iceland and Norway are using commercial boats like the Japanese I'd like you to prove it. I've never seen any.

I need you to define what a "commercial boat" is then because right now you're being contradictory or using a definition of "commercial boat" that nobody else is using.

All the other points have been covered.

No. They haven't.

But then you don't seem to like doing things like giving evidence or providing definitions. Shall I just assume that your point of view is Japanese whaling = commercial while non-Japanese whaling = non-commercial no matter the circumstances.
 
I need you to define what a "commercial boat" is then because right now you're being contradictory or using a definition of "commercial boat" that nobody else is using.



No. They haven't.

But then you don't seem to like doing things like giving evidence or providing definitions. Shall I just assume that your point of view is Japanese whaling = commercial while non-Japanese whaling = non-commercial no matter the circumstances.

Nonsense. As best as I can tell you're comparing the Japanese "research" boats to Indonesian recreational boats. Stop playing games, let's see some pictures in a side by side comparison.

lmfao dodge already noted :D

Nissan Maru=commercial whaling vessel compare them to anything else being used in whaling around the world using images. cite the length and compare the horsepower

buh bye ;)
 
The only thing I hate more than eco-terrorism is passive aggressive wimpy eco-terrorism. I'd have a lot more respect for Sea Shepherd if they'd man up and just start bombing boats.
 
Really? A lot of Indonesian whalers taking undergrad classes in Nome is there? :rolleyes:
"Primitives" are universal to any race. Ted Nugent is an example of a "white" primitive. I find my own views on hunting and wearing furs primitive. Even organic farming is primitive.
It really only becomes pejorative when we're talking about people that do something unsustainable out of principle.

So in other words you'd have absolutely no objection to Ted Nugent going out and hunting whales in a "sustainable manner".

Is Japan's limit of 1000 minke whales a year unsustainable? What makes you think so?
 
The more I learn about the sea shepherd ***clowns the more I lean in favour of whaling.
 
Nonsense. As best as I can tell you're comparing the Japanese "research" boats to Indonesian recreational boats.

Because when I'm talking about Norway or Iceland I'm actually talking about Indonesia?

Stop playing games, let's see some pictures in a side by side comparison.

I'm guessing you're referring to Indonesia here, and you can see how they do it on the second link in this post.

Or you can just look at the table below.

lmfao dodge already noted :D

Because asking someone who has been rather shifty in this discussion for clarification is a dodge.

Nissan Maru=commercial whaling vessel compare them to anything else being used in whaling around the world using images. cite the length and compare the horsepower.

Oh I see, so I'm to compare other ships to the Nisshin Maru and then somehow determine which ships are commercial and which aren't based on some set of standards that exist in your head.

But since I'm a little bored I'll play your stupid little game and present it in a nice table for you:

Ship | Picture | Country | Use | Tonnage (GT) | Length (m) | Propulsion (kw) | Commercial Status according to Furcifer
Nisshin Maru| ICR |Japan|Main Research Vessel/Factory Ship|7659|129.58|5383|Commercial
Yūshin Maru No. 2| Shipspotting |Japan|Research fleet harpoon ship|1059|69.61|3900|Non-commercial
Hvalur 9 RE99| Shipspotting |Iceland|Whaling|573|51.15|1398|Non-commercial
Hvalur 8| Shipspotting |Iceland|Whaling|481|48|n/a|Non-commercial
Skarbakk| Shipspotting |Norway|Whaling|156|21.523|n/a|Non-commercial
Brandsholmbøen| Shipspotting |Norway|Whaling|78.17|20.13|n/a|Non-commercial
Sofie| Shipspotting |Norway|Whaling|134|21.2|n/a|Non-commercial
???| Daily Mail |Indonesia|Whaling|very small|~4|However fast 16 men can row/whale dependent|Non commercial
Bob Barker| Wikipedia |Togo|Disrupting Japanese Whaling (Sea Shepherd)|788|52.2|2206.5|Not current whaling vessel

Of course I will need you to tell me if the last column is correct, but I will admit that this method of defining "commercial" as "the largest ship involved in whaling" is pretty interesting. I could probably use that logic to "prove" that the only commercial cattle producer is Anna Creek station and that because of that the only commercial cattle company is S Kidman and Co Ltd.
 
Sounds to me like your boy Mabo was living on Crown Land. He was at the very least claiming ownership and transfering title of Crown Land, which here in Canada would be considered fraud. He was breaking the law until it was changed so Mabo is a big fat hypocrite right?

sisko-facepalm1.jpg


I forgot how low my expectations of you should be. I apologise, I won't make that mistake again.
 
So, something like causing a commotion to bring some media attention, getting a TV show, making sure the world knows about your cause, that sort of thing? Good to know you approve. Why didn't you say so earlier?

Oh, I completely approve of that. I just don't approve of lying, endangering lives, and trying to intimidate the people following the law into not doing what they're doing.
 
The more I learn about the sea shepherd ***clowns the more I lean in favour of whaling.

This is actually the commonest reaction I hear to their TV show. If you go to the show's page on IMDB the message board section is FULL of people laughing at them and cheering on the whalers, many of whom say that the show has made them into supporters of whaling.

I wonder if the board just attracts the sort of person who likes to be contrary, or if the overall impact of the show is to actually harm their own cause.
 

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