Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Cylinder]

***GRAPHIC/DISTURBING IMAGES. PUT DOWN THE BOWL OF PASTA AND GET THE KIDS IN BED. NSFW***

Practical Pathology of Gunshot Wounds

The correct interpretation of gunshot wounds by forensic pathologists not only provides valuable information that can assist law enforcement in their investigation but also is essential for the final determination of manner of death. Discussion of the practical, basic, and essential skills required to interpret gunshot wounds include distinguishing a classic entrance wound from an exit wound; recognizing atypical entrance and exit wounds; utilizing the features of soot and stippling patterns to differentiate among contact, close, and distant range gunshot wounds; understanding of the trauma produced by gunshot wounds; and understanding the importance of recovering and documenting/handling any projectiles recovered at autopsy.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Maybe he missed it because it was so minor.

Certainly possible. Just didn't seem likely to me , especially when he goes out of his way to specifically state hands and knuckles.

ETA:

While Kurtz is not a forensics expert, the funeral director said he has handled the bodies of many homicide victims in his career. This case in particular affected him as he learned more about what happened to Martin and how the case was handled.

“I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I've ever seen in my lifetime,” Kurtz said.

 

[LTC8K6]

The FBI was not able to determine whether it was Zimmerman or Trayvon who could be heard crying out for help in 911 calls.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...w-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-to-2358129.html

 

[TheL8Elvis]

They are ? Do you have a link ? I have only seen the testimony of gilbreath that their voice analysis was not useful to the state.

I'm sure that's what he's referring to.

I can't speak for WC, but I'm presuming that he's rerferring to Gilbreath's testimony that the FBI audio tests were inconclusive.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...w-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-to-2358129.html

Thanks

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Touche . However all that article says is

The FBI was not able to determine whether it was Zimmerman or Trayvon who could be heard crying out for help in 911 calls.

So their information could also be based on the testimony of Gilbadbreath, as opposed to any official statement from the FBI. Also, you may have put the idea into Wildcats mind, just as the police led the witnesses . Which would explain why WC can't find the article.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Touche . However all that article says is
So their information could also be based on the testimony of Gilbadbreath, as opposed to any official statement from the FBI. Also, you may have put the idea into Wildcats mind, just as the police led the witnesses . Which would explain why WC can't find the article.

Palm beach post now has at least a few un-sourced claims, including this one. You may be right ... they are not on my list of most reliable sources.

 

[johnny karate]

Certainly possible. Just didn't seem likely to me , especially when he goes out of his way to specifically state hands and knuckles.

ETA:

While Kurtz is not a forensics expert, the funeral director said he has handled the bodies of many homicide victims in his career. This case in particular affected him as he learned more about what happened to Martin and how the case was handled.

“I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I've ever seen in my lifetime,” Kurtz said.

It was an abrasion no larger than a quarter of an inch. You can assume malice and deception on the part of Kurtz, if you like. But as you said, he's not a forensics expert.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me. I never placed much stock in his opinion because - again - he's not a forensics expert. I just find it entertaining how quick people are to brand him a liar, when it turns out how insignificant the injury in question turned out to be.

 

[Ausmerican]

Well he is a lifelong NAACP member. Obviously a radical.

Question. Was Trayvon a lefty? If not, why is the only mark on his off hand? Isn't he supposed to have hit Zimmerman more than once with his hand?

Perhaps his right hand was trying, ultimately unsuccessfully, to prevent a gun being trained on him?

GZs injuries, broken nose, black eyes, abrasions to the back of the head, are easily accounted for by one punch to the nose followed by falling over and hitting the back of his head. Also, punching someone in the nose wont harm or mark up your knuckles.

 

[LTC8K6]

Perhaps his right hand was trying, ultimately unsuccessfully, to prevent a gun being trained on him?

GZs injuries, broken nose, black eyes, abrasions to the back of the head, are easily accounted for by one punch to the nose followed by falling over and hitting the back of his head. Also, punching someone in the nose wont harm or mark up your knuckles.

They are also accounted for by the story GZ told.

You have to find strong evidence that busts GZ's story to believe a murder 2 charge is appropriate.

So far, the evidence either fits, or can be fitted, into GZ's account of events.

I don't think I've heard anything that would break GZ's account.

If there is anything, I expect it will be leaked soon.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

GZs injuries, broken nose, black eyes, abrasions to the back of the head, are easily accounted for by one punch to the nose followed by falling over and hitting the back of his head.

 

[Ausmerican]

Why is that funny? Nearly anytime you get a broken nose, you get two black eyes. Quite often, you fall down. In the opposite direction of the impact generally.

 

[johnny karate]

Why is that funny? Nearly anytime you get a broken nose, you get two black eyes. Quite often, you fall down. In the opposite direction of the impact generally.

I'm not surprised to see you derided for your previous post. It's a hostile thread.

Of course, no one is going to offer you an explanation for how Martin's hands remained virtually unmarked after supposedly delivering a beating to Zimmerman.

Nor will any of these people acknowledge the deceptions coming from the Zimmerman camp regarding his injuries (e.g. Zimmerman's former lawyer and father suggesting a need for stitches, Zimmerman walking around the next day with two large butterfly bandages for minor cuts).

But, of course, the funeral director who failed to notice a tiny abrasion on Martin's knuckle is a blatant liar.

 

[LTC8K6]

Why is that funny? Nearly anytime you get a broken nose, you get two black eyes. Quite often, you fall down. In the opposite direction of the impact generally.

I was hit dead in the nose by a baseball. Broke my nose. No black eyes.

 

[Ausmerican]

I was hit dead in the nose by a baseball. Broke my nose. No black eyes.

Getting hit dead on is possibly why you didn't get black eyes. Fists rarely hit dead on though.

Do a Google image search for broken noses and see how many of them have some degree of blackening to the eyes.

[ANECDOTE]I have had my nose broken 7 times, three by fists, two by feet, one knee and a headbutt. Black eyes every time except the headbutt which was dead on.
Also I work in a hospital which has a behavioural health complex attached to it and a floor that is a prison wing. It also has a very busy ER as it is right next to a large university. I get to x-ray a lot of broken hands from punching things and a lot punched heads are in the department for CT. The black eye thing is more common than not.[/ANECDOTE]

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Why is that funny? Nearly anytime you get a broken nose, you get two black eyes. Quite often, you fall down. In the opposite direction of the impact generally.

Possible for all I know but it seems highly unlikely to me. I'm also of the opinion is was George Zimmerman that was screaming, and that ongoing screaming sounded to me like it involved more than a single punch to the nose.

 

[GWCarver]

I'm not surprised to see you derided for your previous post. It's a hostile thread.

Of course, no one is going to offer you an explanation for how Martin's hands remained virtually unmarked after supposedly delivering a beating to Zimmerman.

Nor will any of these people acknowledge the deceptions coming from the Zimmerman camp regarding his injuries (e.g. Zimmerman's former lawyer and father suggesting a need for stitches, Zimmerman walking around the next day with two large butterfly bandages for minor cuts).

But, of course, the funeral director who failed to notice a tiny abrasion on Martin's knuckle is a blatant liar.

I think it is a bit premature to say TM's hands were "virtually unmarked". The most favorable report to TM says he had a small, fresh abrasion on the ring finger of his left hand just below the knuckle.

I take it your assessment of Team Martin is they aren't lying, they just keep saying things that don't happen to be true.

Also, I posted two links earlier that clarified Zimmerman's father's comments about stitches. By the time Z went to the doctor the day following the shooting, the wound had started to heal and would have had to be re-cut to stitch it. From your post, it actually sounds like you read the links and disregarded their content.

 

[Ausmerican]

Possible for all I know but it seems highly unlikely to me...

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/broken-nose

Look under symptoms. Black eyes are listed as a symptom of a broken nose.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/broken-nose

Look under symptoms. Black eyes are listed as a symptom of a broken nose.

Point taken. But a broken nose, two black eyes and head lacerations from a single punch still seems unlikely to me. Plus for the reasons already stated that you omitted from your quote.

 

[LTC8K6]

Getting hit dead on is possibly why you didn't get black eyes. Fists rarely hit dead on though.

Do a Google image search for broken noses and see how many of them have some degree of blackening to the eyes.

[ANECDOTE]I have had my nose broken 7 times, three by fists, two by feet, one knee and a headbutt. Black eyes every time except the headbutt which was dead on.
Also I work in a hospital which has a behavioural health complex attached to it and a floor that is a prison wing. It also has a very busy ER as it is right next to a large university. I get to x-ray a lot of broken hands from punching things and a lot punched heads are in the department for CT. The black eye thing is more common than not.[/ANECDOTE]

The injuries to TM and GZ pretty well match GZ's account.

Unless evidence comes out that breaks GZ's account, it's likely going to stand.

 

[johnny karate]

I think it is a bit premature to say TM's hands were "virtually unmarked". The most favorable report to TM says he had a small, fresh abrasion on the ring finger of his left hand just below the knuckle.

Fair enough. But it's from the autopsy report. I suppose one could argue that MSNBC completely manufactured that statement, but until I see evidence to the contrary I have no reason to disbelieve it.

I take it your assessment of Team Martin is they aren't lying, they just keep saying things that don't happen to be true.

"Team Martin" doesn't represent a person who was there (and is still living) and can provide factual information. Everything they have to say about the case is speculation, which is why I don't give any of it much credence.

Also, I posted two links earlier that clarified Zimmerman's father's comments about stitches. By the time Z went to the doctor the day following the shooting, the wound had started to heal and would have had to be re-cut to stitch it. From your post, it actually sounds like you read the links and disregarded their content.

I didn't disregard the content, I actually acknowledged it for the nonsense that it is. The medical report indicates the cuts were healing fine on their own (look up the term "well approximated" in relation to wounds), and that no sutures were needed. It's idiotic to suggest a cut healing on its own would need stitches if you re-opened it. Why would anyone re-open a healing cut?