Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Natural Born Skeptic]

The reason race should be included in the description of people who commit crimes is so the public will have the information it needs to stay safe. The location of the crime is always noted, as is the gender of the suspect(s). The race is what is left out. As a result, information that could contribute to the public safety is held back purposefully by the MSM.

Now, the police wanted to know the race of TM when Zimmerman was talking to them on the phone. There is a reason for that, and it is the exact same reason the public needs to know the race of the people who commit crimes and get away. The public needs to know just as much about who the police are looking for as the police do, because the public is much more likely to run into the burglar or rapist who got away before the police.

I'm sorry but this is nonsense and I'm shocked that you believe this. They only leave race out when someone has already been arrested, because at that point it's utterly irrelevant. Race is always included if the suspect is still at large and the police have released a description of who should be being looked for. Without exception they will say something like "the suspect is described as a black male in his 30s with a beard and a tattoo on his right arm"...or whatever.

Now I'm sure you can find some exception to that, but that's the way it's handled by every news media outlet I've ever observed.

 

[RandFan]

I've not been lurking lately but I wanted to just acknowledge the news today for the Zimmerman medical report. I would concede that those who made this prediction were correct. I did not think that these injuries, particularly the broken nose, would have been documented. I was wrong.

Carry on.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

No worries, it's all the next day, so the GZ conspiracy theory that he did it to himself can continue on...

No doubt George also sneaked into the medical examiners morgue and put bruises on Trayvon Martin's knuckles.

Is this evidence the least bit surprising to anyone who hasn't been burying their head in the sand? Of course the goal posts constantly change anyhow:

- GZ injured himself.
- If GZ really was injured it wasn't that bad.
Now we can add:
- If GZ was injured worse than we thought, well he still caused it all so it doesn't matter.

 

[Dancing David]

I've not been lurking lately but I wanted to just acknowledge the news today for the Zimmerman medical report. I would concede that those who made this prediction were correct. I did not think that these injuries, particularly the broken nose, would have been documented. I was wrong.

Carry on.

You are gracious.

This is what I have read, a doctor's report from the next day
http://news.yahoo.com/abc-news-excl...ws-broken-204911351--abc-news-topstories.html

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

 

[Cylinder]

Is this evidence the least bit surprising to anyone who hasn't been burying their head in the sand?

The broken nose, IMO, is merely corroborative evidence. In itself, it doesn't show a reasonable fear of death or GBH. It's the head injuries that make this more than a fist fight.

The other item in this report was the fact that Zimmerman declined transport at the scene.

 

[crimresearch]

What are the names of these 'fingerprint experts' that 'they' have 'brought in'?

Or are you talking about the fact that every police department in America has someone who can collect fingerprints and compare them?

Bringing in fingerprint evidence is one thing, 'experts' quite another.

It isn't exactly an unproven field in the legal system, and there aren't a whole lot of variables to challenge with experts.

I used to see people all the time demanding that the court provide them with a 'radar expert' to challenge the science behind their speeding ticket.
Never saw it happen though.
If the machine was inside it's calibration cycle, and the operator had training, the judges wouldn't waste time.

And I suspect that the FDLE lab is certified and the cops around there have been trained on something as basic as fingerprint collection.

 

[crimresearch]

No worries, it's all the next day, so the GZ conspiracy theory that he did it to himself can continue on...

No doubt he used the same time machine that Obama uses to bomb buildings in the 60s with Bill Ayers, to do all that damage to himself in the seconds between the shot, and the arrival of the police.

 

[Mumbles]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

This is good to know, since it contradicts the funeral director's claim that Martin had no cuts on his hands. And it makes sense, given that Zimmerman was hurt.

Doesn't really change my view of things, but it is good for the defense..

 

[Mumbles]

So, you feel the MSM reported Zimmerman's race because he hadn't been arrested? That doesn't make any sense, there was no warrant out for him, or even a BOLO. The police weren't worried he would hurt anyone. Actually, Zimmerman is the rare case in which race doesn't matter, one of the few cases in which the MSM policy of not reporting the race of dangerous people wouldn't have endangered the public.

At this point, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Sorry, I'm not buying the idea that the media are providing cover for random thugs perpetrating some weird covert race war. Fact is, these guys are much more likely to attack another black person, than they are a white person. And of corse, the same is true of white thugs - we're segregated enough in the US that attacking someone of your own race is still far more convenient than attacking someone of another race is.

 

[GWCarver]

I'm sorry but this is nonsense and I'm shocked that you believe this. They only leave race out when someone has already been arrested, because at that point it's utterly irrelevant. Race is always included if the suspect is still at large and the police have released a description of who should be being looked for. Without exception they will say something like "the suspect is described as a black male in his 30s with a beard and a tattoo on his right arm"...or whatever.

Now I'm sure you can find some exception to that, but that's the way it's handled by every news media outlet I've ever observed.

When somebody has been arrested, it really is irrelevant whether or not race is reported because the mug shot is released to the public.

OK, is it "without exception" or can I "find some exception to that"? BTW, I agree that when the police come up with an official suspect or an official description of a suspect, the race of the suspect will be - I want to say finally - reported.

Here is the policy of the Toledo Blade with regard to reporting crime:

"It is The Blade’s policy not to include race in a crime-related story unless the incident is labeled, by police, as racially motivated or when describing an at-large suspect."

 

[This is The End]

I thought the SPD had a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations. If so, then I'm curious why you say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

Why do you think they have a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations ? I have heard of at least one incident in the press, but I am not sure how that makes botched investigations the rule, not the exception. I don't even know if it counts as a botched investigations, or a deliberate cover-up, or something else. Is one corrupt officer an indictment against the entire SPD ?

Please read my quote and then your response again.

I said that if they have a history of botched investigations, then why would a person say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

Am I confused perhaps about what "there is no reason" means?

Then you go from that to "botched investigations are the rule, not the exception".

The frequency of the mistake doesn't really matter. I read the phrase "there is no reason" literally. So if there were any reasons, then it is not quite right to say "there is no reason".

I thought the SPD had a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations.

They do?

First of all my next sentence that you snipped started with "If so".

Secondly, are you saying that they do not? Or are you seriously asking me if they do?

 

[This is The End]

No worries, it's all the next day, so the GZ conspiracy theory that he did it to himself can continue on...

Or that the documents themselves were fabricated a few days ago.

 

[This is The End]

Bringing in fingerprint evidence is one thing, 'experts' quite another.

I'm not quite sure if you missed it, but it seems that you have, if not then I apologize in advance...

We are discussing the fingerprint expert because of the evidence, witness list that was released 2 days ago:

Update:
George Zimmerman prosecutors file list of witnesses, evidence in Trayvon Martin shooting

<snip>According to the documents, prosecutors also have new video evidence from the night of the shooting — both from the 7-Eleven store where Trayvon purchased Skittles and Arizona iced tea, and from the clubhouse of Retreat at Twin Lakes, the apartment complex where the teen was killed.

Other video evidence, which shows Zimmerman being taken into Sanford Police Department headquarters after the shooting, has already been made public. Crime scene photos of both Zimmerman and the teen are also listed in the documents filed Monday.

Also included in the evidence, according to the new filing, are phone records — Zimmerman's from Feb. 21 to Feb. 26 and from March 7 to March 22, Trayvon's from Jan. 1 through March 1, and those of an unnamed witness labeled "W8" from Feb. 26 through April 2. Zimmerman's medical records and Trayvon's autopsy report are listed, as are records of Zimmerman's 2005 arrest and domestic-violence injunctions.

The list includes 56 audio-recorded statements. One witness, identified as W6, one of the 911 callers, gave four statements to authorities about the shooting, two to Sanford police, one to FDLE and one to the prosecution's lead trial attorney, Bernie de la Rionda.
Another witness, W8, gave two statements, one to Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon's family, and one to de la Rionda, which suggests W8 may be the girl described by Crump as Trayvon's girlfriend.

Other primary witnesses include four FDLE investigators and three investigators from the office of state attorney Norm Wolfinger plus two from Corey's office, including Dale Gilbreath, who hand-delivered the motion to Seminole County clerks about 20 minutes before their doors closed for the day Monday.

Five fire-rescue personnel are listed as secondary witnesses. So are a fingerprints expert with Sanford police, and the following FDLE experts: a firearms specialist, DNA expert, trace evidence expert and fingerpprints expert.

Also listed as witnesses are a New Jersey forensics expert, two employees with the Volusia County medical examiner's office and a pair of Federal Bureau of Investigation audio experts.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Please read my quote and then your response again.

OK. You said:

I thought the SPD had a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations.

THEN

I said that if they have a history of botched investigations, then why would a person say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

Right, you said that right after you made the claim that they have a history of botched investigations. So shouldn't we see if your claim is true before we worry about the implications ? So, would you like to dodge my questions again, or will you answer them ?

 

[crimresearch]

I'm not quite sure if you missed it, but it seems that you have, if not then I apologize in advance...

We are discussing the fingerprint expert because of the evidence, witness list that was released 2 days ago:

Thank you, I saw that, and still doubt that it is any more accurate than the rest of the media's verbage.
I doubt if reporters in general have a clue, or if they do, they chose to use a more dramatic sounding word for a fingerprint tech.

Unless Zimmerman is going to claim that he isn't the shooter, or challenge the science behind fingerprints (both extremely unikely IMHO), there is really nothing to be bringing experts in for.

If the names on the actual filing are someone like Robert Garrett (who is from NJ last I knew), or Melissa Gische, I'll stand corrected, but I'll still wonder what they would be needed for.

 

[This is The End]

OK. You said:


THEN


Right, you said that right after you made the claim that they have a history of botched investigations. So shouldn't we see if your claim is true before we worry about the implications ? So, would you like to dodge my questions again, or will you answer them ?

I'm not sure how you could have possibly missed the next 2 words, especially when it was in the part you snipped from my post you just quoted:

First of all my next sentence that you snipped started with "If so".

Not only did you quote the very post that is in, and snip that, but you then did the very thing they did, with the very same post, in the exact same way, in your response!

I thought the SPD had a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations. If so, then I'm curious why you say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

Read that 2nd quote (the one with highlights) very carefully. I thought I had worded it quite correctly, apparently I might not have.

As for these "questions" I am supposedly dodging. I can only assume you are referring to this:

Why do you think they have a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations ?

Are you claiming that they do not have any history besides the "one incident" you heard of?

In other words, are you claiming that you researched it and only found one, or are you claiming that you only know about the one?

---------

So what does all this have to do with you going from me saying that any history is contradictory with "no reason to assume" with you saying that "botched investigations are the rule, not the exception".

It's almost like you chose to ignore my entire post and instead responded with camouflage about whether or not my claim was true.

What would that have to do with you confusing my point, which was there was "a reason to assume" with you saying "botched investigations are the rule, not the exception".

Especially when I made that quite clear in the post:

I said that if they have a history of botched investigations, then why would a person say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

Am I confused perhaps about what "there is no reason" means?

Then you go from that to "botched investigations are the rule, not the exception".

The frequency of the mistake doesn't really matter. I read the phrase "there is no reason" literally. So if there were any reasons, then it is not quite right to say "there is no reason".

ETA: I would also like to make clear that, even if the SPD has a disgusting history, I am not saying that is definite proof, or even that it is likely, that they did anything wrong with this investigation.

I am only saying that, if true, it would not be proper to say "there is no reason" to assume they didn't do a good job.

 

[Cylinder]

We still don't know where the stiches claim by Zimmerman's father came from, since the medical report states "no sutures needed due to well-approximated skin margins."

 

[KatieG]

This might add a twist

According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...juries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7Mi3cWBrJd

 

[crimresearch]

We still don't know where the stiches claim by Zimmerman's father came from, since the medical report states "no sutures needed due to well-approximated skin margins."

Probably from the same place as Trayvon Martin's 'unmarked hands'.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

We still don't know where the stiches claim by Zimmerman's father came from, since the medical report states "no sutures needed due to well-approximated skin margins."

From the same place that half of the Martin's claims come from? Pure emotion and confusion? Didn't he just say that GZ should have had stitches as opposed to did have them?