Obama bribed Reverend Wright to shut up

Neally said:
...the picture is pretty clear that he has a far left leaning record.
Regnad Kcin said:
Er, no.
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Many on the left feel betrayed by Obama. He took a lot of money from Wall Street and then appointed or kept conservatives like Bernanke and Geitner. He did not go after Bush and Cheney for war crimes and he didn't get rid of faith based initiatives or the Patriot act.

No, he is anything but far left.
 
ANTPogo said:
Okay.

His entire *********** presidency!

EDIT: Seriously. This was a nonsense issue back when he was a candidate, and now that he's been president for almost a full term, it's bordering on the pathological.
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Your claiming he isn't holds no more weight than someone saying it is. Unfortunately we don't have the same kind of metrics that were used in the previous studies to work with, but if you would care to offer some sort of other evidence, please do.

RandFan said:
I don't Know it doesn't matter.
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Okay I think it is important.

No, he is anything but far left.
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Compared to what? Someone somewhere will certainly be further left. Ranking of his peers in when he was in Congress shows that he is clearly hard left.
 
Neally said:
Okay I think it is important.
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  • I just explained to you why it is a fallacy using myself as an example. You don't know what is in Obama's mind.
  • Further he has done so many things that belie the notion that he is radical or racist. It's just a non-starter.
Compared to what? Someone somewhere will certainly be further left. Ranking of his peers in when he was in Congress shows that he is clearly hard left.
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You are using this in an ad hominem fashion. And it's demagoguery. But you have yet to account for how a far left president could do all of the far right stuff that he has. What exactly does this have to do with Wright?
 
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Neally said:
Your claiming he isn't holds no more weight than someone saying it is.
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I'm not "saying" anything. I'm pointing at his actual performance as President of the United States of America, where he didn't act in the least like any kind of liberal sociocommie, but instead was a center-right compromiser.
 
Let me list this out:

Liberal- Cap and Trade, bail out banks and auto industry, Obamacare, new Free Trade agreements, fiddle to keep Medicare and Social Security, up minimum wage
Left Liberal- Carbon tax, cease foreclosures and bail out auto industry, public option or even single payer, Fair Trade agreements, expand to Medicare-for-all (as either public option or only option as before), more centralised and equitable school funding K-12, public funding of elections and IRV and abolish Electoral College, establish living wage
Socialist- Nationalise industries and banks and pension plan and medical care and education up through graduate, proportional representation and public funding in elections along with abolishing and restructuring our public bodies to be fully democratic, "... to each according to his need"

It may seem like a matter of degree, but liberals and left liberals just want a more regulated capitalism. A socialist wants to completely remove capitalism and make a new system.

And I just choose the easiest to compare form of socialism (democratic socialism). There are plenty of versions, like the Daily Show clip illustrated, and the rest of them are so revolutionary that there would be no way to compare it to liberalism in the first place.
 
Upchurch said:
But he does have a history of fabricating sources.
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Examples of klein fabricating a named source?

Upchurch said:
I do, actually. Do you understand what "purported source" means, wrt reporting?
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Do you know what a "named source" means?

Upchurch said:
More to the point. None of us have direct knowledge of what Wright may or may not have said. We only have direct knowledge of what Klein says Wright said. Until verified, Wright is no more the source of the comment than you were the source of the "I fling poo" comment.
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No, Wright is the source. It says so right there in the article, published by a major newspaper.

Sure, it's possible Klein made up the entire interview out of whole cloth, and the NYP editors don' give a damn about being sued for libel, and Wright is somehow completely unaware that the story has been published. But I certainly don' find it likely.
 
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WildCat said:
(citation needed)

I'm sure you don't want to establish a history here of inventing bogus claims...
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Here's some.

Reached by phone, Scheiner confirmed that he had sat down for an interview with Klein. But while he still has the same concerns about the Affordable Care Act almost three years later, he doesn't believe he offered up the same criticism verbatim during the interview.

"I think he may have gotten that from your article," he said. "I'm just not that consistent."

Scheiner took umbrage with other aspects of his portrayal in Klein's book, saying that he was never overtly critical about the president on a personal level and that he only took issue with his policies. (At one point, he is quoted as calling Obama "a great speaker and a lousy communicator," and Klein writes that Scheiner expressed "hurt" that he wasn't invited to Obama's inauguration.)

"I didn't say anything about competence or about character," said Scheiner. "In fact, I repeated how much I admired him personally. I said my whole disagreement is with how he handled the Affordable Care Act."
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Neally said:
Well then, do show how Americans for Democratic Action and the National Journal where wrong in their assessments of his voting records.
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Nice try. You labeled various degrees of assessments of Mr. Obama's pre-presidential voting record (termed liberal) as "far left leaning." That's not an analytical determination, it's your interpretation.

A cannibal is a meat-eater. A meat-eater is not necessarily a cannibal.
 
The Right Wing's two main attacks on Obama:

  1. He's a left-wing / socialist / communist
  2. He is doing the same stuff you criticized Bush for.
 
Tricky said:
The Right Wing's two main attacks on Obama:

  1. He's a left-wing / socialist / communist
  2. He is doing the same stuff you criticized Bush for.
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3. He's an evil America-hating mastermind who is working to destroy this country and transform it into a socialist shariah hellhole.

4. He's a wishy-washy empty suit who's never even held a real job before and can't seem to manage to do anything.
 
RandFan said:
Okay, gotcha. :)
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But it is an interesting thing to consider. Many lefties bemoan that liberals only ever seem to campaign based on compromised positions, whilst the conservatives can start off in their own ideological territory. I don't think it is quite that bad, after all Bush kept the EPA, Department of Education, and Medicare/caid. But I think the center-right tilt of the nation lends credence to the notion.
 
WildCat said:
So he plagerized the quote from another source?
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No, he claimed that Scheiner said that quote in his interview with him, when Scheiner actually said it three years ago in another interview with someone else entirely.

And he claimed that Scheiner made several derogatory personal comments about Obama in the same interview, when Scheiner said he made no such comments.

In other words, Klein attributed statements to a named source that said source never said to him.

And there's no way you could have read my post and not understood that, meaning your comment above is an utterly and purposefully dishonest interpretation of what Klein did.

But hey...keep digging yourself that hole, Wildcat.
 
ANTPogo said:
No, he claimed that Scheiner said that quote in his interview with him, when Scheiner actually said it three years ago in another interview with someone else entirely.

And he claimed that Scheiner made several derogatory personal comments about Obama in the same interview, when Scheiner said he made no such comments.

In other words, Klein attributed statements to a named source that said source never said to him.

And there's no way you could have read my post and not understood that, meaning your comment above is an utterly and purposefully dishonest interpretation of what Klein did.

But hey...keep digging yourself that hole, Wildcat.
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So has Wright denied saying it to Klein, as Scheiner did?
 
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