Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[GWCarver]

The point was that the police claimed that they could not arrest Zimmerman due to "stand your ground", even though they had clear evidence that Zimmerman pursued Martin.

Do you have a cite for the "clear evidence" that Zimmerman pursued Martin?

 

[Cylinder]

I see. Could you please explain what department in a criminal investigation is responsible for the forensics and ballistics if not the police?

I'm guessing the FDLE lab would do (or contract) the ballistic and blood testing for the more common tests.

 

[Cylinder]

Do you have a cite for the "clear evidence" that Zimmerman pursued Martin?

He/she don't need no steenkin' cites.

 

[Cylinder]

OK - all I find is stories repeating the fact that a Martin family spokesman claimed that Chief Lee told the Miami Herald that Zimmerman didn't know Trayvon's race. Even the Herald repeats a variation on the claim, but still no link to the original reporting. I guess it's useless to point out that Chief Lee himself was not part of the investigation.

Does anyone have a link for this?

 

[crimresearch]

Do you have a cite for the "clear evidence" that Zimmerman pursued Martin?

There is a million dollars with your name on it if you can prove that Zimmerman was still in his truck at the same moment he was also a good distance away on the ground with Martin.

 

[crimresearch]

OK - all I find is stories repeating the fact that a Martin family spokesman claimed that Chief Lee told the Miami Herald that Zimmerman didn't know Trayvon's race. Even the Herald repeats a variation on the claim, but still no link to the original reporting. I guess it's useless to point out that Chief Lee himself was not part of the investigation.

Does anyone have a link for this?

That was posted early in this thread, at least a couple of times. I don't doubt that it has sunk to the bottom of the heap since then.

 

[crimresearch]

I'm guessing the FDLE lab would do (or contract) the ballistic and blood testing for the more common tests.

They have regional labs around the state that are capable of that and more.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content...f3-8b2d-f6ffd42b2116/Forensics-Info-Home.aspx

The fact that FDLE had received SPD's part of the investigation was also posted earlier in this thread.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

There is a million dollars with your name on it if you can prove that Zimmerman was still in his truck at same the moment he was also a good distance away on the ground with Martin.

What does that have to do with what GWcarver asked? Not being in his truck does not equal him pursuing TM. And before we get caught up in a bunch of semantics (not necessarily with you), we clearly know that at some point GZ was following TM. I think what's in question for those of us who actually care about the truth is whether he knowingly continued to pursue him in the sense of seeing him and following him until he reached him (or until TM turned around and confronted him). Which I believe GZ claims he did NOT do and is not what happened.

 

[Dancing David]

I see. Could you please explain what department in a criminal investigation is responsible for the forensics and ballistics if not the police? And could you further explain why the police don't find this information important to have before completing their investigation?

I have said what I have to say, and it differs from what you seem to think. We have a pluralistic society and it is formed of many parts.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

We have a pluralistic society and it is formed of many parts.

Didn't I explicitly warn you not to use any big words? Granted it's only a mildly big word but still, I warned you.

 

[crimresearch]

What does that have to do with what GWcarver asked? Not being in his truck does not equal him pursuing TM. And before we get caught up in a bunch of semantics (not necessarily with you), we clearly know that at some point GZ was following TM. I think what's in question for those of us who actually care about the truth is whether he knowingly continued to pursue him in the sense of seeing him and following him until he reached him (or until TM turned around and confronted him). Which I believe GZ claims he did NOT do and is not what happened.

The semantics of 'pursuing' versus 'following' versus 'keeping an eye on' versus 'intercepting' versus 'stalking' and all the CT assumptions propped up on the alleged importance of the differences between them, were beaten to a greasy spot in the first several thousand posts.
The rational conclusions survive.

Unless someone can prove that either GZ or TM were in 2 places at the same time, or flew across the rooftops, there is nothing remarkable about the fact that the events unfolded within the boundaries set by time and physics.

 

[Cylinder]

That was posted early in this thread, at least a couple of times. I don't doubt that it has sunk to the bottom of the heap since then.

I find claims that Chief Lee said that to the Herald. I'm looking for the quote. By him. That's kind of my starting point for evaluating that claim.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I find claims that Chief Lee said that to the Herald. I'm looking for the quote. By him. That's kind of my starting point for evaluating that claim.

You're seriously spending time searching for the basis of claims made by Mumbles ? He outright makes up half of his claims, the other half usually have some faint basis in fact that are so distorted by the time he gets done with them that they bear little resemblance to the original fact.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm guessing the FDLE lab would do (or contract) the ballistic and blood testing for the more common tests.

Yes, but that's a lab, not an investigative body. They do the work and then send it back to whoever is actually investigating the crime. According to Dancing David, the police apparently are able to complete an investigation without awaiting forensic evidence. I'd like to know who the crime lab sends their results to, and why that wouldn't be the police.

 

[johnny karate]

I have said what I have to say, and it differs from what you seem to think. We have a pluralistic society and it is formed of many parts.

No worries. Being insulting and taking cheap shots is easy. Actually supporting one's position through rational discourse can prove to be more difficult.

 

[Cylinder]

You're seriously spending time searching for the basis of claims made by Mumbles ? He outright makes up half of his claims, the other half usually have some faint basis in fact that are so distorted by the time he gets done with them that they bear little resemblance to the original fact.

You do have a point. The same claim is in media sources. Hell, the freaking Miami Herarld ran a story reporting that the Martin's claimed that Lee told that to the Herald, but never really clear the point up. Yea, I know they're just running a wire story.

 

[Mumbles]

OK - all I find is stories repeating the fact that a Martin family spokesman claimed that Chief Lee told the Miami Herald that Zimmerman didn't know Trayvon's race. Even the Herald repeats a variation on the claim, but still no link to the original reporting. I guess it's useless to point out that Chief Lee himself was not part of the investigation.

Does anyone have a link for this?

I'm even less interested in posting links now that I'm using tablet rather than laptop. But you do seem to be honest, so here's the relevant one to this claim:

In an interview this week with the Miami Herald, Police Chief Bill Lee said the 911 calls would prove the incident was not a case of racial profiling, because when asked whether the suspect was white or black, Zimmerman did not know. However the recording clearly shows that when asked, Zimmerman said, “He looks black.” And then a few moments later, “He’s a black male.”

Note that the Miami Herald is noting their own interview with Chief Lee, and that he never did dispute this. If you want a direct quote, however, you'll need to ask the Herald for it.

As far as evidence that Zimmerman pursued Martin, it's in Zimmerman's police call, where he gets out of his car and follows Martin. If you think this doesn't equal a pursuit, well, we're going to have to disagree.

 

[GWCarver]

There is a million dollars with your name on it if you can prove that Zimmerman was still in his truck at the same moment he was also a good distance away on the ground with Martin.

I really don't understand the reasoning behind responses like the one above.

I would say the evidence shows Zimmerman was trying to locate TM, failed to do so, and was heading back to his truck when TM pursued and confronted GZ. It was at that point TM hit Zimmerman and knocked him to the ground.

To the best of my knowledge that is Zimmerman's statement, and at this point in time I haven't heard of any evidence to refute it. He was interviewed by three different law enforcement agencies, did a reenactment of the shooting with police, and still wasn't arrested.

Anyway, for those who insist on using the word "pursued", it more closely fits Z's story of Martin closing on him from behind than it does Z trying, but failing, to locate TM.

 

[LTC8K6]

Looking for someone isn't pursuing them.

Neither is keeping them in sight.

Imo.

In my mind, I pursue a person in order to catch them.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm even less interested in posting links now that I'm using tablet rather than laptop. But you do seem to be honest, so here's the relevant one to this claim:



Note that the Miami Herald is noting their own interview with Chief Lee, and that he never did dispute this. If you want a direct quote, however, you'll need to ask the Herald for it.

As far as evidence that Zimmerman pursued Martin, it's in Zimmerman's police call, where he gets out of his car and follows Martin. If you think this doesn't equal a pursuit, well, we're going to have to disagree.

Lee means GZ does not know initially, so it can't be the reason for the interest, imo. "He looks black." is an indication that GZ is initially not sure of TM's race.

The fact that GZ later says "He's a black male" does not make Lee a liar.

Imo, the 911 calls do indeed show that GZ couldn't have been racial profiling.

Or "hoodie" profiling, either, since the 911 calls also indicate that TM didn't have his hood up at first.