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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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A Grand Jury was already scheduled before the mob showed up in Sanford.

This is false. Protests and petitions were building up around the 13th of march, and national media began covering the story around then. The grand jury announcement was made on the 20th - at which point protests had already been planned in many cities. In fact, it seems that the Grand Jury announcement would not have been made had it not been for the widespread protests.

When that happened, the case was turned over to State Attorney Corey, who in turn cancelled the GJ, presented a lie-filled Probable Cause Affidavit, and had Zimmerman arrested for 2nd degree murder.

I was unable to spot any lies in Corey's affidavit - or at least, of any lies on her part.

The normal course of justice was subverted by Martin, Fulton, Sharpton, Crump, and the MSM, and replaced by a railroad prosecution. I haven't heard of anyone, anywhere who thought Zimmerman would have been subject to a 2nd degree murder charge before the mob showed up.

As I recall, the possibility was brought up in the first page of this thread.
 
They questioned GZ for 4 hours. I'm sure their total investigation hours was many, many times that. You didn't honestly think you'd sneak that invalid comparison by me did you Katie :p :D?

:D Luv ya, NBS!

I hope they did but it is the SPD. They don't have the best record for dealing with crimes in their city.

I don't know how to feel about this case anymore. It's exhausting to follow one trail, then be led down another. Almost everyone involved has an agenda and they're all following the play book, line by line.

I do think it's pretty nasty to slam the Martins for what they're doing. (Not you, NBS) They have a dead child. My mind is spinning trying to imagine the hell they're going through right now. The line of people taking adavantage of them stretches for 1000s of miles.
 
I have no idea what the Zimmermans think of your hate-fueled fantasy-version of events.



Yes, it completely slipped my mind. Now that we have determined Zimmerman has parents, it's perfectly reasonable to unleash a venomous assault on the people grieving their dead child. Please, carry on. It's always fascinating when social niceties fall away and someone reveals who they really are.

Is that what they are doing in London, grieving for their dead child?

Oh, you avoided my question about the Zimmermans. Why not answer it, and explain what you mean by my "hate-fueled fantasy-version of events".
 
A Grand Jury was already scheduled before the mob showed up in Sanford. When that happened, the case was turned over to State Attorney Corey, who in turn cancelled the GJ, presented a lie-filled Probable Cause Affidavit, and had Zimmerman arrested for 2nd degree murder. The normal course of justice was subverted by Martin, Fulton, Sharpton, Crump, and the MSM, and replaced by a railroad prosecution. I haven't heard of anyone, anywhere who thought Zimmerman would have been subject to a 2nd degree murder charge before the mob showed up.

ETA - My apologies for the tone of my last couple of posts. Injustice sometimes gets me hot under the collar. I'll try to tone it down in the future.

Very droll
 
Is that what they are doing in London, grieving for their dead child?

Oh, you avoided my question about the Zimmermans. Why not answer it, and explain what you mean by my "hate-fueled fantasy-version of events".

Do you think the Martins are being entertained? Watching the changing of the guard? Boating on the Thames? Taking pictures in Trafalgar Square? Having tea the Queen?

Is there no limit to the depths you'll go to to slam the parents of a dead young man? I'm sure there aren't any forum rules about trashing the parents of the victim here, but in your case, I wish there were. Your posts are disgusting.
 
Is that what they are doing in London, grieving for their dead child?

Yes. And honoring him. As is their right as grieving parents.

What is it about them being in London that you find so offensive?

Oh, you avoided my question about the Zimmermans. Why not answer it...

Why would any reasonable person answer such a ridiculously loaded question?

... and explain what you mean by my "hate-fueled fantasy-version of events".

What word didn't you understand?
 
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This is false. Protests and petitions were building up around the 13th of march, and national media began covering the story around then. The grand jury announcement was made on the 20th - at which point protests had already been planned in many cities. In fact, it seems that the Grand Jury announcement would not have been made had it not been for the widespread protests.


I was unable to spot any lies in Corey's affidavit - or at least, of any lies on her part.

As I recall, the possibility was brought up in the first page of this thread.

It isn't false. Sharpton showed up with the mob on the 22nd after the announcement of the GJ, assuming it was on the 20th as you stated. If your position is there would have been no GJ at all without the threat of mobs coming to town, I won't argue with it. But, we would have to know the status of all of the forensic testing on the 20th of March to know for sure. If the results were already in and showed no evidence of a crime, that would mean the Corey prosecution is an absolute and complete railroad, not just a regular railroad.

With regard to your 2nd point, Corey didn't write any part of the affidavit. It was the two Sanford investigators with contributions by Bernie, according to Gilbreath's testimony at the bond hearing and the signatures on the affidavit. It was released on Corey's letterhead.

I checked the first page of this thread, and here is the quote from triforcharity:

"If there is no evidence that he was attacked, or in any way had his life threatened, he will end up with 2nd deg. Murder charges."

I would say that was nothing more than speculation, but I'll give you credit for digging it up.
 
Do you think the Martins are being entertained? Watching the changing of the guard? Boating on the Thames? Taking pictures in Trafalgar Square? Having tea the Queen?

Apparently, the agenda has finally revealed itself. The moment Martin was killed, his parents have been trying to figure out a way to parlay that into a trip to London.

Is there no limit to the depths you'll go to to slam the parents of a dead young man? I'm sure there aren't any forum rules about trashing the parents of the victim here, but in your case, I wish there were. Your posts are disgusting.

Reminds me of the quote by Maya Angelou:
The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.
 
Yes. And honoring him. As is their right as grieving parents.

What is it about them being in London that you find so offensive?



Why would any reasonable person answer such a ridiculously loaded question?



What word didn't you understand?


I think it is clear you aren't interested in actually engaging in a dialogue.
 
It isn't false. Sharpton showed up with the mob on the 22nd after the announcement of the GJ, assuming it was on the 20th as you stated. If your position is there would have been no GJ at all without the threat of mobs coming to town, I won't argue with it. But, we would have to know the status of all of the forensic testing on the 20th of March to know for sure. If the results were already in and showed no evidence of a crime, that would mean the Corey prosecution is an absolute and complete railroad, not just a regular railroad.

With regard to your 2nd point, Corey didn't write any part of the affidavit. It was the two Sanford investigators with contributions by Bernie, according to Gilbreath's testimony at the bond hearing and the signatures on the affidavit. It was released on Corey's letterhead.

I checked the first page of this thread, and here is the quote from triforcharity:

"If there is no evidence that he was attacked, or in any way had his life threatened, he will end up with 2nd deg. Murder charges."

I would say that was nothing more than speculation, but I'll give you credit for digging it up.

For those of us following along since the beginning of the thread, no digging is required.
 
The SPD investigation was still going on. The SA was still working on the case. The SA had already directed SPD to review the whole case again, and that was done. Wolfinger added the GJ as another investigative tool.

There was a lot going on with the case when it was taken away.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-attorney-case-will-be-given-grand-jury-shoot/nLX9c/

Wolfinger released a statement on Tuesday saying, "I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin. That is why I directed the expeditious review of the investigation which was delivered by the Sanford Police Department one week ago today; areas for further investigation have been identified; and, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement has agreed to assist and has been working hard with my office since Friday, March 16. I will also be utilizing the investigative resources of the Seminole County Grand Jury which will be called to session on Tuesday, April 10, 2012.
 
I think it is clear you aren't interested in actually engaging in a dialogue.

Edited by jhunter1163: 
Edited for Rule 0.


So yes, by all means let's engage in dialogue on the terms which you have already established with this intelligent and factually-based question:
What do you think their opinion is of Martin and Fulton's national campaign of hatred and vengeance (and profit) against their son?

I'm sure their opinion is the equivalent to how the Martin family feels about Zimmerman being a racist gun-toting thug who likes to murder black children.

Is that what you had in mind?
 
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The SPD investigation was still going on. The SA was still working on the case. The SA had already directed SPD to review the whole case again, and that was done. Wolfinger added the GJ as another investigative tool.

There was a lot going on with the case when it was taken away.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-attorney-case-will-be-given-grand-jury-shoot/nLX9c/

Yes, and it sucks that we don't know what that info is! :D I demand to know! :D :eek:

When the doc dump happens, I predict a few hours of thread silence while we all read and then the thread will explode in spectacular fashion! You read it here first, folks! :crowded:
 
Do you think the Martins are being entertained? Watching the changing of the guard? Boating on the Thames? Taking pictures in Trafalgar Square? Having tea the Queen?

Is there no limit to the depths you'll go to to slam the parents of a dead young man? I'm sure there aren't any forum rules about trashing the parents of the victim here, but in your case, I wish there were. Your posts are disgusting.

Let's just say after four years of watching the Kerchers having Maresca persecute the innocent Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollicito, I have a very clear picture of what is going on here.

So, let me ask you a question. Keeping in mind it is entirely possible this case could go on for four years and end up with Zimmerman being found not guilty, do you think the Kerchers grief justified what they did to Knox and Sollicito?
 
Yes, and it sucks that we don't know what that info is! :D I demand to know! :D :eek:

When the doc dump happens, I predict a few hours of thread silence while we all read and then the thread will explode in spectacular fashion! You read it here first, folks! :crowded:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...rey-evidence-release-20120514,0,1089381.story
George Zimmerman's lawyer expects to get his first look at the evidence against his client Monday.

The rest of us will not.

Special Prosecutor Angela Corey's office announced late Friday afternoon that it will not release the information to the public on Monday.

Florida's public records law allows government agencies a reasonable amount of time to provide records, once they're requested. It does not define what a reasonable amount of time is, and Corey spokeswoman Jackelyn Barnard said she was not sure when the evidence might be released to those requesting it.

Her office, she said, is not intentionally trying to hide the evidence from the media and public.

...

The evidence against him is in Jacksonville at Corey's office. She's expected to turn it over Monday to defense attorney Mark O'Mara.

It will include crime scene photos, Trayvon's autopsy, Zimmerman's five statements to authorities, witness statements, and crime lab work — if it's been completed — on clothing and Zimmerman's handgun.

Attorneys for both sides, though, have said they want to keep some of it secret, especially the names and addresses of witnesses.

O'Mara said he's afraid they won't cooperate out of fear they'll be harassed by reporters and people who have taken sides in the racially-charged case.

He said last Thursday that he may file a motion Monday, asking a judge to seal those names, and perhaps other things as well.

Those other things, he said, might include things that inflame racial tensions or those that would never be admitted at trial.

If he makes the request, media companies, including the Orlando Sentinel, would likely file a challenge, pressing for the release of all the evidence.

I predict that much of the prosecution's evidence is stuff that can be looked at either way. If you think GZ is guilty, you can see/use the evidence that way, and vice versa.
 
The SPD investigation was still going on. The SA was still working on the case. The SA had already directed SPD to review the whole case again, and that was done. Wolfinger added the GJ as another investigative tool.

There was a lot going on with the case when it was taken away.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-attorney-case-will-be-given-grand-jury-shoot/nLX9c/


What I find interesting about this is it seems to be at odds with statements like the following:
I am baffled about the claims that SPD did not do an investigation, or did an inadequate investigation.

As far as I can tell, they did a normal thorough investigation of a shooting, even with GZ's self defense claim.


On one hand, the Sanford PD did a thorough and adequate investigation.

On the other hand, the investigation was still ongoing.

So how can an investigation be thorough and adequate, but also incomplete?
 
It will include crime scene photos, Trayvon's autopsy, Zimmerman's five statements to authorities, witness statements, and crime lab work — if it's been completed — on clothing and Zimmerman's handgun.

Probably all from SPD's initial "inadequate" investigation.
 
What I find interesting about this is it seems to be at odds with statements like the following:



On one hand, the Sanford PD did a thorough and adequate investigation.

On the other hand, the investigation was still ongoing.

So how can an investigation be thorough and adequate, but also incomplete?

The SA was still investigating, with the help of SPD and other agencies, to determine what to charge GZ with, if anything.

It prob took a week or so for SPD to finish up the initial work and put a report together for the SA. Then another week or so for the SA to work on it.

You're right at March 20 or so then.
 
The SA was still investigating, with the help of SPD and other agencies, to determine what to charge GZ with, if anything.

It prob took a week or so for SPD to finish up the initial work and put a report together for the SA. Then another week or so for the SA to work on it.

You're right at March 20 or so then.

So by the time Angela Corey took over the case, was the investigation complete or not?
 
Let's just say after four years of watching the Kerchers having Maresca persecute the innocent Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollicito, I have a very clear picture of what is going on here.

So, let me ask you a question. Keeping in mind it is entirely possible this case could go on for four years and end up with Zimmerman being found not guilty, do you think the Kerchers grief justified what they did to Knox and Sollicito?

I spent the last 4 years in and out medical treatments for a spinal injury. I didn't follow the Knox case because I wasn't that functional. From the little I did grasp, it was a perfect storm of police incompetance and a sensationalistic media rush to judgement. Ya know, kinda like this case. :)

Other than grief and media fuled sense of outrage, I don't know what motivated the Kerchers. Having never had children, I'll never know the pain of losing one. (I hate that word, would someone please offer me an alternative? When your child dies, you don't "lose" them)

I see the Martins reaching out for some peace. They want to set up a foundation to do whatever possible to keep this kind of thing from happening again. I believe they are caught up in some of the whirlwind surrounding this case and they are emotionaly and mentally vulnerable. If, in 4 years, I hear them carrying on about how justice wasn't served, the jury was wrong, the judge was wrong, stalking GZ or harrassing his family, I'll reconsider. I think the Martins are the only ones out there who haven't spoken ill of GZ or his family.

Grief does very powerful things. It wrenches reason and balance out from under the mind. The support system goes into overload and people say and do hurtful things to themselves and their loved ones. My father died 6 months after I got married. On the day of his burial, I said some horrible hateful things to my husband. Sarcastic, biting comments that came out of nowhere. He's a wonderful man so we're still married, 16 years later. :D It doesn't always turn out that way. I got to deal with my grief in a private way.

The Martins don't have that courtesy. Do you honestly think they'd rather have the limelight right now than their son? Yes, he had a couple of behavioural issues that both parents had to deal with. None of it that bad, though suspension is never a good thing. No idea about the alledged incident concerning the bus driver, the jewelry thing is still full of holes that need to be filled in, or maybe not, the spraying grafitti on the lockers, yep, some issues but I doubt he was headed to jail.
 
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