• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rare Truth said:
The dude used to be a bouncer, went by the nickname tugboat, (as his family says "because he was so big"), I'm thinking had pretty good experience in dealing with scuffles and brawls, as he had about 45 - 5-0 pounds on the teenager (who has no history of getting in fights) -- AND he was locked and loaded, with injuries that didn't even require a bandage, I'm gonna say...a bit more than the picture that is revealed by the evidence.

But hey, since so little of the forensics, crime scene reports and witness statements have been seen, I guess we'll know at some point with more clarity.
Click to expand...

That didn't really answer my question.....but I too am waiting for the rest of the evidence. My mind is open.
 
Cylinder said:
LEOs will have a similar problem. We all know full well that if you start banging a cop's head into the pavement, you're gonna get yourself shot, right? Anyone have any other expectation? What will you get charged with if you happen to survive? Agravated assault on LEO - and the weapon's going to be the cement. I expect his theme to be presented when the first LEO uses the term unarmed.

Put the picture in the LEO's hands, ask him to look at it. Then ask if you interviewed a witness with those wounds who claimed they were in fear of their life, would you suspect they were lying? That one has some risk, but if the LEO answers honestly...
Click to expand...
This is a great argument. Similarly, imagine that there are pictures that show the cops bleeding head and a medical report of a broken nose. I can't imagine any scenario in which the cop would be charged with anything, and the pictures would be considered overwhelming proof that he/she acted appropriately.
 
Rare Truth said:
No one has seen the EMT report of the few minutes Z sat in the back of a squad car to get his scratches wiped away. That's coming.

The rest rely on our eyeballs of old tugboat (what his friends affectionately called him) in his jaunty little bandageless six minute stroll through the police station some 35 minutes after his life or death terrorization.
Click to expand...

So your claim was speculative.
 
Rare Truth said:
The dude used to be a bouncer, went by the nickname tugboat, (as his family says "because he was so big"), I'm thinking had pretty good experience in dealing with scuffles and brawls, as he had about 45 - 5-0 pounds on the teenager (who has no history of getting in fights) -- AND he was locked and loaded, with injuries that didn't even require a bandage, I'm gonna say...a bit more than the picture that is revealed by the evidence.

But hey, since so little of the forensics, crime scene reports and witness statements have been seen, I guess we'll know at some point with more clarity.
Click to expand...

I think as long as one views Zimmerman not bleeding in the police station as more important than the police documenting he was bleeding at the crime scene, clarity will not be forthcoming, regardless of what discovery may show down the road.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
That was horrible. Here are some quotes:

GR: on that fateful day, he was coming here to watch basketball with you, is that right ?
CG: yes

GR: is this a high crime community
BG: I've been here for 4 years and never heard of any crime going on or anything

GR: So you don't believe it (regarding a rash of recent thefts in the community)
BG: no, no I don't

BG: we had a good bond. I fell in love with him the first time I met him

I don't think it does anything to demonstrate he 'temporarily' lived there or that Chad and TM had any sort of bond. Calling them 'brothers' is just PR nonsense.

What do you think of the fact that Tracy Martin had just split up with his wife of 7 years a few weeks before TM was killed ? Do you think that it's irrelevant to TM relationship with the Greens ?
Click to expand...

:eek: Didn't realize Tracy Martin was still married while simultaneous 'engaged' to Brandy Green. Not much to do with the case, more an indictment of the media portrayal.

http://www.tampabay.com/tb-two/blog/2012/4/25/trayvon-martins-stepmom-he-was-just-good-boy/

Where were you when you heard that Trayvon had been killed?
I was at work, and I called a friend, a mutual friend of Trayvon’s father. He told me he just got off the phone with my husband and said that Trayvon had got killed Sunday night.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Unless you think that iPhone picture of GZ's head is fake, I don't see where that line is going. He doesn't need to have severe injuries, or even bad injuries.
Click to expand...

But he does need injuries consistent with what he claims.

What indication do you have that GZ is lying?

If you could name one thing that makes you think GZ is lying about the events of that evening, what would it be?
Click to expand...

It should be noted that - unlike a lot of people in this thread - my starting point is to disbelieve the guy being charged with murder who claims it was in self-defense. And I don't see how that's an unreasonable position to take. If we had a clearly determined A to Z narrative of the events that perfectly match Zimmerman's claims, then it would be case closed. But key aspects of Zimmerman's narrative are unsubstantiated.

As far as specifics, it's the nature of Zimmerman's injuries that don't coincide with the account detailed by his lawyers and father which make me suspicious.

LTC8K6 said:
Argument from authority?
Click to expand...

The question was one of belief, not one of proof. "Argument from authority" doesn't enter into it. Bonus points for irony considering how many times the investigation of the Sanford PD has been cited in this thread as evidence Zimmerman is innocent.

Mike Nifong had a strong case too, as have many other prosecutors who ended up looking bad.

That's no reason to believe GZ is lying.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what makes you think you can arbitrarily determine for other people why they can believe what they believe.

But suffice it to say, that an experience legal professional with access to more evidence than the rest of us have made the determination Zimmerman is lying is a pretty good reason to believe he might be lying.
 
Last edited:
johnny karate said:
The question was one of belief, not one of proof. "Argument from authority" doesn't enter into it.

I'm not sure what makes you think you can arbitrarily determine for other people why they can believe what they believe.

But suffice it to say, that an experience legal professional with access to more evidence than the rest of us have made the determination Zimmerman is lying is a pretty good reason to believe he might be lying.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, police almost always say a suspect is lying, whether they are or not. Suspects pass polygraphs and police lie to them and tell them they failed. Thus, police leaking information that would lead one to believe a suspect is lying at this stage has no real meaning, without some evidence to support the accusation. The Supreme Court told them they could lie, and that's what they do.

Zimmerman foolishly consented to interviews from several different law enforcement agencies without counsel, so there will be "inconsistencies" in his statements, if for no other reason than the questions may have been formatted differently and the amount of time he was given to answer could have varied. So, every inconsistency can be leaked to look like a lie from now until the police have to testify under oath.
 
Rare Truth said:
Especially when they get cleared by Emergency Medical professionals in a matter of minutes before they are due to head into police interrogation and possible night in a jail cell.
Click to expand...
And you read the report stating that the EMS professionals cleared Zimmerman exactly where?
 
crimresearch said:
And you read the report stating that the EMS professionals cleared Zimmerman exactly where?
Click to expand...
I posted this last week, for those paragraph challenged, and I could have sworn you were part of the conversation then, but no matter.

Here, again. The picture version of the police report for those that didn't bother to read it.

TMCleared-1-1-1.jpg


*post 8705, if you care: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8253976&postcount=8705
 
Last edited:
Rare Truth said:
Duh. You didn't read the police report?? Wow. That's like square One.
Click to expand...
The police report said no such thing. It specifically said that he was given first aid, not that he was cleared.

And you never read any Emergency Medical professional's report, you simply made that up. This is as irrelevant as the 'tactical flashlight' verbage.

Do you have anything that is either correct or useful?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom