Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Giz]

This is HUGE. It's exceptionally difficult to lie about this type of thing and be consistent about it. Yet after 4 hours of questioning without an attorney and reenacting the event on video, the first prosecutor decided there was no evidence to prosecute. On top of it his statements just happened to coincide with information as well as eyewitness testimony he could not possible have known existed.

On top of it, so far as I have seen, every bit of the story makes sense and "fits". People just hate it because they don't want to believe it, and therefore convince themselves it's unbelievable.

This is kinda where I am. Based on the information available, it appears probable that it may well have been a justified shooting. (Now if the prosecutor has more evidence that could change things).

As an aside: the media's reporting has been horrible. My initial understanding was that someone who outweighed another by over 100 lbs had shot him, then not even been taken in for questioning but instead released with his gun. And we now know all of the previous to be false. (This isn't even going into the photos and the NBC editing etc). A huge amount of this controversy has been whipped up by the media, apparently on the basis that lynch mobs buy newspapers.

 

[bookworm]

Well, first of all, I don't have access to all the evidence, do I? Secondly, here of this forum, if someone claims Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head on the ground, it's not up to me to disprove that claim.

And since you don't, you really shouldn't just speculate and make stuff up that contradicts the evidence that IS available, right?

 

[WildCat]

You'll have to ask the Asst. State Attorney who brought it up while questioning the investigator.

He seemed to think it was important, and then immediately the next question in regards to the flashlight was this:

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. Zimmerman never claimed that he chased - in terms of 'ran after' - Mr. Martin, is that correct?

GILBREATH: No.

DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?

GILBREATH: Yes.
​

You think it may be possible a witness may have seen someone with a flashlight in pursuit?

I do.

So once again it's just baseless speculation?

 

[LTC8K6]

You'll have to ask the Asst. State Attorney who brought it up while questioning the investigator.

He seemed to think it was important, and then immediately the next question in regards to the flashlight was this:

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. Zimmerman never claimed that he chased - in terms of 'ran after' - Mr. Martin, is that correct?

GILBREATH: No.

DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?

GILBREATH: Yes.​

You think it may be possible a witness may have seen someone with a flashlight in pursuit?

I do.

That doesn't sound like much to me. It sounds like the "shadow" witness being recycled.

 

[Noztradamus]

Please describe the features of a "tactical" flashlight, and what makes it different from a non-tactical flashlight, and why it's relevant to this case.

Generally speaking, a "tactical" flashlight is one with a yield below 100 kilotons.

 

[johnny karate]

Well, yes, but then what he said had to match witness reports and other evidence. He didn't have time to make sure that would happen. He just told it like it was.

You keep making this claim that what Zimmerman said matched witness reports. This ignores the fact that there are key aspects to this encounter that are not corroborated by witness accounts. As I have pointed out. Repeatedly.

 

[bookworm]

Actually, the first informs the second.

You see, if I say someone is bleeding, it is not an indication of severity. How much are they bleeding? That cannot be ascertained from such a statement. Therefore, in determining the severity of an injury, the simple observation that a person is bleeding is meaningless.

However, if that same person is seen less than an hour later without a trace of blood or any bandages, it can be reasonably asserted that when they were bleeding earlier, it must have not been very severe.

And in Zimmerman's case, since we have actual photos of his injuries taken from the scene, we know this to be the case.

Did you know that many people die from minor bumps on the head with no visible injuries? You can't use lack of visible injuries to judge the severity of head injuries. Lots of people are seen an hour after a bump on the head without a trace of blood or bandages or some of them are dead in the next few hours.

 

[LTC8K6]

I sincerely hope this is not the same brand of skeptical thought you apply to other areas of your life.



You don't know if the Sanford PD tried to refute it.



How very surprising. I would have thought Corey's office had you on speed-dial.



It's a issue of credibility. If Zimmerman can be shown to have embellished or manufactured parts of his accoun, the veracity of the entire narrative is called into question.

What would he embellish?

Oh I see. You are back on the "severity of the injuries" bandwagon.

Well, good luck with that.

 

[GWCarver]

I really, really doubt that scenario will be claimed by the prosecution. I think Tracy Martin misunderstood Serino.

Well, maybe not that exact scenario, but there has been a recent leak depicting TM circling Zimmerman's truck. I would imagine this leak and the story Martin told are different versions of the same event. What is interesting is this provocative behavior on the part of TM is not being presented as such by the Sentinel. The author of the article presents it as incriminating evidence against Zimmerman because he didn't mention it to the non emergency response operator, although it was included by Zimmerman in all of his interviews with authorities in a consistent manner.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...secutor-angela-corey-source-police-department

 

[bookworm]

Please describe the features of a "tactical" flashlight, and what makes it different from a non-tactical flashlight, and why it's relevant to this case.

I think a tactical flashlight is much scarier and more threatening than a regular flashlight.

 

[johnny karate]

And since you don't, you really shouldn't just speculate and make stuff up that contradicts the evidence that IS available, right?

Like what? What speculation have I offered that contradicts the evidence? Please provide a quote.

Did you know that many people die from minor bumps on the head with no visible injuries?

Did you know that the overwhelming majority of people don't die from minor bumps on the head with no visible injuries?

 

[Giz]

You don't know if the Sanford PD tried to refute it.

I assume that when they questioned him for hours in the police station that evening and then spent hours reenacting the scene the next day, that refuting a weak or inconsistent story would have been one of the things they were trying to do (unless you think the police were just foolin' around, killing time until the krispy kreme lights went on).

 

[Unlike a Bull]

Has anyone considered that TM may have been lost? From the pictures I've seen it looks like one of those neighborhoods where every building looks the same. And if he hasn't spent much time there (I don't know how familiar he was with the area) he might have gotten turned around. This would explain TM "checking out houses" and also why he didn't run home if he had an opportunity. It would also, to me, make it more likely that TM would choose to turn and fight (if he did, I don't know) since he wouldn't know where safety is to run to.

 

[bookworm]

Please describe the features of a "tactical" flashlight, and what makes it different from a non-tactical flashlight, and why it's relevant to this case.

I think a tactical flashlight must be scarier and more threatening than a regular flashlight.

 

[LTC8K6]

You keep making this claim that what Zimmerman said matched witness reports. This ignores the fact that there are key aspects to this encounter that are not corroborated by witness accounts. As I have pointed out. Repeatedly.

Have we seen the witness statements taken by Sanford PD right at the time of the incident?

 

[johnny karate]

What would he embellish?

Oh I see. You are back on the "severity of the injuries" bandwagon.

Well, good luck with that.

Are you seriously asking what motivation a guy on the hook for murder would have to lie?

Because the notion that Zimmerman couldn't possibly be lying is rather bizarre.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think a tactical flashlight must be scarier and more threatening than a regular flashlight.

IIRC, the tactical flashlight was 6 inches long.

A tactical flashlight of that type is indistinguishable from a regular flashlight.

It is most likely recognized as a tactical light because of the mfr's name on it such as Surefire.

You typically use a handheld tactical flashlight to illuminate a bad guy, or to blind him.

They can also be weapon mounted, but I doubt that applies here, given the reported length.

http://www.amazon.com/SureFire-Tactical-Nitrolon-Switching-Flashlight/dp/B00489IL8M

 

[bookworm]

Has anyone considered that TM may have been lost? From the pictures I've seen it looks like one of those neighborhoods where every building looks the same. And if he hasn't spent much time there (I don't know how familiar he was with the area) he might have gotten turned around. This would explain TM "checking out houses" and also why he didn't run home if he had an opportunity. It would also, to me, make it more likely that TM would choose to turn and fight (if he did, I don't know) since he wouldn't know where safety is to run to.

That's a good possibility that deserves thought.

 

[LTC8K6]

Are you seriously asking what motivation a guy on the hook for murder would have to lie?

Because the notion that Zimmerman couldn't possibly be lying is rather bizarre.

Unless you think that iPhone picture of GZ's head is fake, I don't see where that line is going. He doesn't need to have severe injuries, or even bad injuries.

What indication do you have that GZ is lying?

If you could name one thing that makes you think GZ is lying about the events of that evening, what would it be?

 

[oody]

I think a tactical flashlight is much scarier and more threatening than a regular flashlight.

FWIW, the term does seem to be in common enough use that there exists a wikipedia article "Tactical Light" ... (excerpt)

A tactical light is a flashlight used in conjunction with a firearm to aid low light target identification, allowing the marksman to simultaneously aim and illuminate the target. Tactical lights can be handheld or mounted to the weapon with the light beam parallel to the bore. Tactical lights also serve a role as a method of non-lethal force, used to temporarily blind and disorient targets.[1][2]Features particularly associated with tactical lights include shock resistance, reliability, lightweight and powerful batteries, and high light intensity.